11-05-2018, 12:37 PM
forme2know
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17
forme2know
Joined: March 9th, 2007, 3:39 pm March 11th, 2007, 7:25 pm #1 2007-03-11T19:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
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Lillea
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Lillea
Joined: January 8th, 2007, 4:19 am March 11th, 2007, 7:50 pm #2 2007-03-11T19:50
This is fantastic information! Thank you. My concern is why does PM, when applied topically, whiten nipples?
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forme2know
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forme2know
Joined: March 9th, 2007, 3:39 pm March 11th, 2007, 7:57 pm #3 2007-03-11T19:57
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Lillea
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Lillea
Joined: January 8th, 2007, 4:19 am March 11th, 2007, 8:02 pm #4 2007-03-11T20:02
I appreciate anything you uncover! [img=15x17]./forum_data/forums.he/heal/healthforum/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif[/img]
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sar
sar
October 12th, 2008, 2:02 am #5 2008-10-12T01:02
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lissamae
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lissamae
Joined: June 4th, 2007, 9:57 pm October 12th, 2008, 2:10 am #6 2008-10-12T01:10
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Mumma Bear
Mumma Bear
October 12th, 2008, 4:47 am #7 2008-10-12T03:47
"Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones."
This doesn't make sense. If it were bioidentical to estradiol it would be called estradiol - it would be the same chemical. It cannot be 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones if it's also being claimed to be bioidentical to these same hormones. It may well be 500 times more potent than most phytoestrogens - perhaps this is what the poster intended to say. Do a little research and you'll find it's considered >bio-similar< to estrogen - and generally the one it's compared with the most closely is actually estriol. This is a good thing (the poster does her product a disservice) - estriol is considered the safest out of the 3 main estrogens. If miroestrol was bioidentical to estradiol it would be like rubbing HRT cream into your breasts - a very bad idea and something that is a standard warning on these HRT creams.
These two links will be handy for anyone wishing to read further on this.
http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_li ... rdon_1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen
You can compare the chemical structures of miroestrol, estradiol, estriol and estrone yourself, see what you think - they are all very similar. Keep in mind that chemically testosterone is chemically very similar to estrogen too - and look what different effects they have on the body!
Those interested in this topic would do well to note the very low rates of breast cancer in Thailand shown in the first link.
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Louise1982
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Louise1982
Joined: June 9th, 2007, 12:28 pm October 12th, 2008, 4:59 pm #8 2008-10-12T15:59
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L
L
October 12th, 2008, 8:15 pm #9 2008-10-12T19:15
And, where should we be buying our PM from so that it contains enough of this ingredient.
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Mumma Bear
Mumma Bear
October 13th, 2008, 1:41 am #10 2008-10-13T00:41
Bio-identical is short for "biochemically identical" ie the same chemical structure. So exactly as Louise has just pointed out - bio-identicals have the same action on the tissues as the hormones in your body that they're bio-identical too.
I think (assume?!) where the OP writes:
"and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones."
..the OP was saying "natural hormones" but perhaps meaning "other phyto-estrogens"
I lurk on here everyday for the last few months but really wanted to clear up any confusion with the original post. As soon as I read it I was concerned that other posters would stress out badly about this when they got to those 2 lines. Imagine - BE folk stressing out - "OH NO - so I've been rubbing freaking estradiol into my breasts everyday??!!! No wait - it's some kind of super-estradiol that's 500 times more potent!!" And then stressing out that breast cancer is just around the corner - which was the opposite intent of the article!
(Anyway, with that hopefully cleared up and me drawn out of lurkdom perhaps I should introduce myself. Very briefly though - i don't want to hijack the thread.
Age 38 Perimenopausal since 36
2 children, combined 6+ years of breastfeeding (they just wouldn't give it up!!!!)
Prechildren was a small but firm A - post children left with zero breast tissue and saggy nipples [img=15x17]./forum_data/forums.he/heal/healthforum/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif[/img]
Very slim build
Have had small and slow progress with SP and FG. Thanks to this forum I'm now doing the massage (cocoa butter), the magnets (these seem to really help with retaining more luteal swelling each month) and have discontinued the SP (was wondering where all that cellulite came from!). I bought PM from Bella (dust and potion) and have just completed the first cycle. I've had as much growth in 2 weeks compared with the last year using the other things just listed. Hubby notices the difference - still very small but now more recognisable as actual breasts!)
October 13th, 2008, 3:15 am #11
I just wanted to write in and say what a wonderfully helpful thread this is! I have been planning on trying Bella's PM next cycle and this gives me more confidence to do so. Mumma Bear, it's nice to hear that you're getting on well with it so far! I'm really excited to try it.
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GoldSnowflake
Posts
17
October 17th, 2008, 11:11 am #12
This is a good source of info too, and just wanted to point out that the PM HAS to be of the WHITE variety, not red or black. And all PM sources should state what variety it is. It must be of the WHITE Pueraria Mirifica root for breast enhancement.[/size]
Posts
17
forme2know
Joined: March 9th, 2007, 3:39 pm March 11th, 2007, 7:25 pm #1 2007-03-11T19:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
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Lillea
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Lillea
Joined: January 8th, 2007, 4:19 am March 11th, 2007, 7:50 pm #2 2007-03-11T19:50
This is fantastic information! Thank you. My concern is why does PM, when applied topically, whiten nipples?
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forme2know
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forme2know
Joined: March 9th, 2007, 3:39 pm March 11th, 2007, 7:57 pm #3 2007-03-11T19:57
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------LOL this is a good question. There ARE mild skin lightening effects from using PM topically. Why...it is one of the many effects that PM has. I will see if I can find out WHY!!!! This is actually a desirable effect for some...especially when used in face creams etc.
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
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Lillea
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Lillea
Joined: January 8th, 2007, 4:19 am March 11th, 2007, 8:02 pm #4 2007-03-11T20:02
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ah, I was wondering if it lightened skin in general. It seemed odd that it would only lighten nipples. However, for me, lightening of skin is undesireable. I have very fair skin. I keep being tempted to try PM (from St. Herb) then run into this issue.
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
I appreciate anything you uncover! [img=15x17]./forum_data/forums.he/heal/healthforum/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif[/img]
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sar
sar
October 12th, 2008, 2:02 am #5 2008-10-12T01:02
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Has anyone have a good PM? i just ordered perfect curve...does anyone know of a good brand?
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
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lissamae
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lissamae
Joined: June 4th, 2007, 9:57 pm October 12th, 2008, 2:10 am #6 2008-10-12T01:10
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So can you recommend a good brand of PM that contains the right amount of miroestrol? I'm going to switch from the herbal capsules I'm taking now because they give me horrible headaches. I just don't want to waste my money on a brand of PM that isn't good [img=15x17]./forum_data/forums.he/heal/healthforum/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif[/img]
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
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Mumma Bear
Mumma Bear
October 12th, 2008, 4:47 am #7 2008-10-12T03:47
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The OP has offered some great info, however, lets the rest of the post down with this unfortunately illogical statement - I'm hoping it's a typo, but it does need addressing:
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
"Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones."
This doesn't make sense. If it were bioidentical to estradiol it would be called estradiol - it would be the same chemical. It cannot be 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones if it's also being claimed to be bioidentical to these same hormones. It may well be 500 times more potent than most phytoestrogens - perhaps this is what the poster intended to say. Do a little research and you'll find it's considered >bio-similar< to estrogen - and generally the one it's compared with the most closely is actually estriol. This is a good thing (the poster does her product a disservice) - estriol is considered the safest out of the 3 main estrogens. If miroestrol was bioidentical to estradiol it would be like rubbing HRT cream into your breasts - a very bad idea and something that is a standard warning on these HRT creams.
These two links will be handy for anyone wishing to read further on this.
http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_li ... rdon_1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen
You can compare the chemical structures of miroestrol, estradiol, estriol and estrone yourself, see what you think - they are all very similar. Keep in mind that chemically testosterone is chemically very similar to estrogen too - and look what different effects they have on the body!
Those interested in this topic would do well to note the very low rates of breast cancer in Thailand shown in the first link.
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Louise1982
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Louise1982
Joined: June 9th, 2007, 12:28 pm October 12th, 2008, 4:59 pm #8 2008-10-12T15:59
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bioidentical means has the same biological action i.e. agonistic / antagonistic action on the same tissues as have matching active sites which can bind with the hormone receptors.
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
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L
L
October 12th, 2008, 8:15 pm #9 2008-10-12T19:15
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The only question now is, how much Miroestrol is "effective".
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
And, where should we be buying our PM from so that it contains enough of this ingredient.
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Mumma Bear
Mumma Bear
October 13th, 2008, 1:41 am #10 2008-10-13T00:41
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wouldn't that be wonderful! I've read that the Thai government is rather keen and supportive of PM - because it's so specific to that region and has such a huge market potential for BE as well as menopause and perimenopause support. I'd say it might not be too long before there's some kind of independent body or authority that regulates the industry there which would conduct those studies - maybe there is already. Does anyone have any info on this?
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
Bio-identical is short for "biochemically identical" ie the same chemical structure. So exactly as Louise has just pointed out - bio-identicals have the same action on the tissues as the hormones in your body that they're bio-identical too.
I think (assume?!) where the OP writes:
"and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones."
..the OP was saying "natural hormones" but perhaps meaning "other phyto-estrogens"
I lurk on here everyday for the last few months but really wanted to clear up any confusion with the original post. As soon as I read it I was concerned that other posters would stress out badly about this when they got to those 2 lines. Imagine - BE folk stressing out - "OH NO - so I've been rubbing freaking estradiol into my breasts everyday??!!! No wait - it's some kind of super-estradiol that's 500 times more potent!!" And then stressing out that breast cancer is just around the corner - which was the opposite intent of the article!
(Anyway, with that hopefully cleared up and me drawn out of lurkdom perhaps I should introduce myself. Very briefly though - i don't want to hijack the thread.
Age 38 Perimenopausal since 36
2 children, combined 6+ years of breastfeeding (they just wouldn't give it up!!!!)
Prechildren was a small but firm A - post children left with zero breast tissue and saggy nipples [img=15x17]./forum_data/forums.he/heal/healthforum/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif[/img]
Very slim build
Have had small and slow progress with SP and FG. Thanks to this forum I'm now doing the massage (cocoa butter), the magnets (these seem to really help with retaining more luteal swelling each month) and have discontinued the SP (was wondering where all that cellulite came from!). I bought PM from Bella (dust and potion) and have just completed the first cycle. I've had as much growth in 2 weeks compared with the last year using the other things just listed. Hubby notices the difference - still very small but now more recognisable as actual breasts!)
shortcake83
Posts
56
Posts
56
October 13th, 2008, 3:15 am #11
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[size=undefined]
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
I just wanted to write in and say what a wonderfully helpful thread this is! I have been planning on trying Bella's PM next cycle and this gives me more confidence to do so. Mumma Bear, it's nice to hear that you're getting on well with it so far! I'm really excited to try it.
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[/size]
GoldSnowflake
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October 17th, 2008, 11:11 am #12
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[size=undefined]
I use the PM and have done extensive research on it. I want to address an important question by one of the members about PM and whether or not it might be harmful to the body, as we have found the animal based synthetic estrogens to be. She specifically asked about the risk of cancer. This is an important issue.
PM is NOT carcinogenic. Infact....recent studies have shown, that it actually is an "anti-proliferative" for many of the hormone related cancer cell lines. This means it "inhibits" the growth of the cancer cells. PM is a very special Phytoestrogen. We all know about the plant estrogens, soy, red clover, yam etc etc. PM is very different than all other phytoestrogens. Why is it so different? It contains MIROESTROL. No other plant known to man at this time, contains MIROESTROL. Not soy, red clover, hops, fennel, chaste berry, don quai, yam or any of the other herbs.
Why is MIROESTROL so special? Because it's chemical structure is "bio-identical" to human estradiol and 500 times more potent than equal amounts of natural hormones. What is "bio-identical" and what is the significance of it? When PM is absorbed via the skin, or supplemented in the diet (capsules), it goes unchallanged or unnoticed by the body as "foreign". This reduces, and/or eliminates unwanted side effects. MIROESTROL is very Mamogenic (enhances and enlarges the breast)to women. And yes, there is scientific evidence to support this.
Do all PM products on the market have significant amounts of MIROESTROL in them? NO THEY DON'T. MANY, the inexpensive ones, contain little or insignificant amounts of MIROESTROL. Why is this? Because these products are made from the powder or the extract of plants grown and collected from the wild. This is an inexpensive source of PM, and many manufacturers use it to cut costs and make profits.
How do I know all this? I have conferred with the only raw materials supplier of Premium Grade PM powder and cosmeceutical grade extract, in the USA. My information source has direct contact with, and is himself, one of the original "researchers" who first discovered MIROESTROL. As an importer of PM he also has direct contact with the "growers" of the selected species of PM on the organic farms in Thailand. The amount of MIROESTROL in different PM plant sources, is NOT equal.
The levels of Miroestrol in any given PM specimin is DEPENDANT on the the plant genetics, growing conditions and harvest cycle. The longer it remains in the ground (the tubers), the more Miroestrol in it. ONLY plants that have been carefully "selected" for their high phytoestrogen content and "cultivated" to increase the levels of MIROESTROL in them, and let grow for many, many years (at least 5 or more), contain enough MIROESTROL to have any efficacy (effect on breast growth).
The plants that are collected from the "wild", have too short a harvest cycle to have significant amounts of this precious plant estrogen. There genetics are questionable, as is the growing conditions these wild plants have been exposed to. The collection methods are also uncontrolled.
These variables are numerous, and pose serious quesions as to the efficacy of any PM products that are made from them.
Unfortunately, many of the PM products on the market are made from these inexpensive wild grown plant sources. So ladies, if you are going to try the PM, do your homework. Be sure that the PM product you are paying good money for, and so judiciously massaging into your breasts, has significant levels of MIROESTOL.
Too be sure, look for a "chemical assay" or "certificate of analysis" for the PM in the products you buy. If a manufacturer doesn't have one or won't display it then they most likely are selling "wild grown" PM. Don't waste your money.
This is a good source of info too, and just wanted to point out that the PM HAS to be of the WHITE variety, not red or black. And all PM sources should state what variety it is. It must be of the WHITE Pueraria Mirifica root for breast enhancement.[/size]