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Cycling and Side Effects?
#11
my apologies missboob for the hijack.

(09-06-2014, 08:16 PM)Lotus Wrote:
Why increasing the dosage doesn't always work


Negative feedback occurs when the result of a process influences the operation of the process itself in such a way as to reduce changes. Feedback can produce stability and reduce the effect of fluctuations. Negative feedback loops in which just the right amount of correction is applied in the most timely manner can be very stable, accurate, and responsive.

Negative feedback loops have been compared to a thermostatically controlled temperature in a house, where the internal temperature is monitored by a temperature-sensitive gauge in the thermostat. If it is cold outside, eventually the internal temperature of the house drops, as cold air seeps in through the walls. When the temperature drops below the point at which the thermostat is set, the thermostat turns on the furnace. As the temperature within the house rises, the thermostat again senses this change and turns off the furnace when the internal temperature reaches the pre-set point.

Negative feedback loops require a receptor, a control center, and an effector. A receptor is the structure that monitors internal conditions. For instance, the human body has receptors in the blood vessels that monitor the pH of the blood. The blood vessels contain receptors that measure the resistance of blood flow against the vessel walls, thus monitoring blood pressure. Receptors sense changes in function and initiate the body's homeostatic response.

Read more: Homeostasis - Negative feedback - Body, Blood, Internal, and Conditions - JRank Articles http://science.jrank.org/pages/3365/Home...z34AWy8WWP

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Cycling is important when taking supplements, failure to do so will result with tolerance, and the supplements will stop working.

Once your body makes the adjustments to get back to homeostasis is the time to cycle, (ie. in a 7 day plan, try 5 days on and 2 days off).


Tolerance occurs when the person no longer responds to the drug in the way that person initially responded. Stated another way, it takes a higher dose of the drug to achieve the same level of response achieved initially.


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#12
Cycling is important. For one to mimic what the body is doing, and another to keep sensitization (so much of what is said is generally correct). Perhaps increasing the three hormones at once is also another route to go. It is possible that PM has two (or 3) hormonal effects, (based on anecdotal evidence of its effects) but I'm uncertain of this (still it could be cycled to improve its hormonal effect).

I'm not certain if an antagonist blocks receptors, but it does deactivate them while simultaneously sensitizes them. Too much of an antagonist (an overload) causes the opposite and also desensitize it, perhaps such as how (small amounts of) DHT by itself is this potent and stops growth.

From the last chart, it showed that an antagonist and agonist had mid range effects. There is a balance of sensitizing vs activation of receptors that needs to be found, so the (weak) antagonist and agonist working together might possibly be beneficial.

It is important to cycle (or possibly use together) effects of progesterone, estrogen and prolactin, which the body already does. Cycling with DHT is most counterproductive. It's less counterproductive to cycle weaker androgens, except to aromatase T into estrogens.

Dehydro forms of progesterone could also desensitize receptors, but theoretically be less inhibiting than DHT, since progesterones cause growth, while androgens don't cause mammary growth at all.

It's like a math puzzle to figure out how much to activate a receptor while balancing sensitization. Perhaps the functions that inhibit DHT also have to be cycled, or taken a break from.
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#13
Thanks lovely,

I was going to use this in another thread but hey, it makes sense here too.

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#14
okay, so i'll be honest-- lots of big words flying around here. Lol, I am new to NBE, so I am not too keen on receptors but i've gotten a pretty good understanding how hormones work with growth and the over all human body.

So what I am gaining from everyone here-- is basically if you cycle, it will trick your body's hormones and it will work better. So when estrogen is at it's peek, take something like PM. When progesterone starts, maybe start using your progesterone cream, or something?

I am not sure at what stage our body releases prolactin, though. When should one cycle fennugreek or goatsrue?

funny someone mentioned acne, because I was thinking taking estrogen and progesterone, or something like PM would level out or lower androgen's which is what causes the acne.
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#15
(15-11-2014, 09:11 AM)ruch Wrote: Since I started taking herbs, I have been getting regular acne. So after a month or two, I stopped everything but the PM.. but I still get acne. I am trying to deal with it in the hopes my boobs will grow and the acne will stop when I can finally stop taking herbs. We'll see. I am tempte to stop the herbs altogether and jst noogle and massage though as the acne is really bad (cystic and constantly have 1-2 on my face)


I think you might be in taking too much PM, love.

I read online that 200 mg/ day 15 days a month, any more than that is most likely too much. Have you been cycling it too? I know its important to cycle your PM-- otherwise it will just mess your hormones too much and it will cause acne.

this is a guide to PM:
http://yestheyrenatural.com/how-to-get-b...ate-guide/

& if you choose to cycle a progesterone cream:
http://yestheyrenatural.com/can-you-get-...one-cream/
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#16
BUMP

Old thread, great info re; cycling (bottom first page)
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#17
Thank you for bumping!! So much helpful info here.
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#18
(03-12-2018, 08:23 PM)Amanda363 Wrote: Thank you for bumping!! So much helpful info here.


Your welcome, think its super important, we forget to consider benefits of cycling and also effects of too much estrogen.
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#19
I have taken fenugreek.. It totally works!!
I was sketchy on it at the time.. but it really does work..

But, do not take fenugreek without first talking to your doctor if you have a bleeding or blood clotting disorder or diabetes, or if you are taking any medicines to prevent or treat a blood clotting disorder or diabetes. Fenugreek has been reported to affect blood clotting and blood sugar levels.
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#20
(15-11-2014, 09:11 AM)ruch Wrote: Since I started taking herbs, I have been getting regular acne. So after a month or two, I stopped everything but the PM.. but I still get acne. I am trying to deal with it in the hopes my boobs will grow and the acne will stop when I can finally stop taking herbs. We'll see. I am tempte to stop the herbs altogether and jst noogle and massage though as the acne is really bad (cystic and constantly have 1-2 on my face)


I just wanted to link to this article that helped me a bought of acne that I got recently. It came on soo quick and was really bad - like nothing else I've ever experienced in my life so I knew it was from my NBE herbs.

It's a pretty simple formula really: high amounts of estrogen with relatively low amounts of progesterone combined with too much DHT can cause acne. Note that it's not really "too much estrogen" but rather a high estrogen: progesterone ratio (combined with DHT) that's the issue.

I cut PM out (sadly bc I do think that helps with my NBE) and doubled the amount of saw palmetto I'm taking and that has caused my acne to basically disappear within a week.

Here's the link to the article
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