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Noogleberry Experiment.

#31

Hey Cheryl - sorry to see you distressed! Try not to worry, and keep us posted. I'm wondering if you couldn't have started lactating because of the massage? I stumbled upon this website, GrowYours.com - they sell a massage technique that purportedly increases breast size by enlarging the glands, rather than by adding fat to the breast. They advertise that you can even make yourself lactate despite not being preggo using the massage.

I have no idea what the technique is (can't afford the $ to find out), but I wonder if you inadvertantly duplicated it and got yourself to lactate - If you did, that's pretty freakin cool!

The only thing then, is I think I get from the site that the enlarged glands are due to the constant stimulation - I can't confirm this, but I thought you have to keep massaging to keep growth.

Anyways - if you are lactating, if you have someone who can nurse from your breasts, that will keep your milk production up and your size! And somebody gets a free meal too! Big Grin
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#32

Hello all,
I found this on-line let me know if you have used this and if not reason why not to try it.
Thanks
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Some Typical Hormone Regimens
Updated November 2004
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I receive frequent inquiries from transgender persons who want my advice concerning typical hormone regimens. These individuals may wish to educate their physicians, or may plan to self-administer hormones without medical supervision. Sometimes I also receive inquiries from physicians directly.
Naturally, I believe that taking hormones under medical supervision is by far the best and safest course. But I also believe that transsexual women who decide for whatever reason to take hormones without medical supervision ought to have as much information as possible to guide them. Here are my thoughts:

Estrogen is the most important part of any feminizing regimen. Some typical initial estrogen dosages for preoperative transsexual women who have not undergone SRS or orchiectomy (castration) are as follows:

Oral estrogens:
estradiol (e.g., Estrace® or Estrofem®), 6-8 mg daily; OR

estradiol valerate (e.g., Progynova®), 6-8 mg daily; OR

conjugated equine estrogens (e.g., Premarin®), 5 mg daily; OR

ethinyl estradiol (e.g., Estinyl®), 100 mcg (0.1 mg) daily (NOT RECOMMENDED); OR

Transdermal estrogen:

estradiol (e.g., Vivelle-Dot®, Estraderm®, Climara®, etc.), two 0.1 mg patches, applied simultaneously, changed per manufacturer's recommended schedule (see note below); OR

Injectable (intramuscular) estrogen (NOT RECOMMENDED):


estradiol valerate (e.g., Delestrogen®), 20 mg IM every two weeks.
Occasionally half the suggested dosage may be sufficient. Sometimes the dosage will need to be increased, rarely even doubled. Beyond a certain point, larger dosages will not increase tissue response, but will only cause more side effects.
Oral estrogens are most commonly used, and are typically very satisfactory. Among the oral preparations, I prefer estradiol (or estradiol valerate, which is virtually identical). Estradiol is very inexpensive, and has low hepatic toxicity. Most clinical laboratories can perform estradiol blood levels; it is more difficult to obtain meaningful measurements of blood levels with conjugated equine estrogen or with ethinyl estradiol. Estradiol is also produced synthetically, without cruelty to animals. This is not the case with conjugated equine estrogen (Premarin®), which is prepared from the urine of pregnant mares.

Estradiol tablets can be taken sublingually (placed under the tongue to dissolve) instead of being swallowed. This may reduce possible liver toxicity, because with sublingual administration, much of the medication is absorbed directly into the blood stream, rather than being metabolized by the liver after first passing through the digestive tract. Less metabolism is also likely to result in higher levels of estradiol itself, and lower levels of its less-active metabolites, estrone and estriol. Micronized estradiol tablets are specifically designed for either oral or sublingual use and dissolve quickly under the tongue without an unpleasant taste.

Premarin® is by far the most expensive oral preparation. One of its few advantages is its relative potency, which is notably higher than estradiol on a milligram-per-milligram basis. This is because some of the equine estrogens in Premarin, especially equilin, have higher biologic potency than the estrogens normally found in humans.

Ethinyl estradiol is a chemically-modified form of natural estradiol. The ethinyl substitution results in a longer duration of action, and greatly increased potency. Consequently, typical milligram dosages of ethinyl estradiol are about one-fiftieth of typical milligram doses of estradiol. This is a preparation I do not recommend, due to its association with thromboembolic complications; see Toorians et al. (2003). Venous thrombosis and changes of hemostatic variables during cross-sex hormone treatment in transsexual people. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 88, 5723-5729.

I think that taking 81 mg of aspirin daily is a good precaution for persons taking oral estrogens, assuming no contraindication to aspirin exists.

Transdermal estrogen causes less clotting tendency than oral estrogen, which is possibly important to some patients. However, transdermal preparations are more expensive, and skin reactions to the adhesives employed are not uncommon. I recommend transdermal estrogen for most patients over the age of 40, to patients with risk factors such as cigarette smoking, and to patients with a personal or family history of cardiovascular disease. Transdermal patches should be changed according to the manufacturer's recommended schedule: twice weekly for most patches, weekly for Climara®.

Injectable estrogen may cause less clotting tendency than oral estrogen and it is less expensive than transdermal estrogen. However, it requires the use of needles and syringes, and the ability to perform injections; it has a greater tendency to increase serum prolactin levels; and it is often associated with inadvertent or deliberate overdosage. Contrary to the belief of many consumers, there is no credible evidence that injectable estradiol produces superior feminization. I do not recommend the use of injectable estrogen and I no longer prescribe it in my practice.

If you have access to laboratory testing, a serum estradiol level of about 125-200 pg/ml – about one-third to one-half the normal female mid-cycle peak – is often considered ideal, at least for the first two years or so of feminizing therapy. It is not necessary or desirable to "cycle" estrogen, or any other medication, in an attempt to mimic the normal female menstrual cycle.

Besides providing estrogen, a hormone regimen should also reduce testosterone to normal female levels. This usually requires adding an anti-androgen.

In persons who have not had an orchiectomy, reducing testosterone levels is also a concern. Although the desired reduction in testosterone can theoretically be accomplished with estrogen alone, the dosage required is usually in excess of what is needed for feminization. Adding an anti-androgen allows lower dosages of estrogen to be used; this is usually highly desirable. Typical dosages of anti-androgens are as follows:

Oral anti-androgens:
spironolactone (e.g., Aldactone®), 100-300 mg daily in divided doses; OR

cyproterone acetate (e.g., Androcur®), 100-150 mg daily.

Sometimes 100 mg of spironolactone may be sufficient, but 200–300 mg is a more typical dose. The Vancouver group uses up to 600 mg daily, apparently without problems. Spironolactone is fairly inexpensive, is readily available, and is usually quite well tolerated. In my opinion, it should be regarded as the anti-androgen of choice for most patients. Cyproterone is actually a progestin (see below), but it is used primarily for its anti-androgenic effects and only secondarily for its progestational effects. It is not available in the US, but is popular elsewhere. One disadvantage of cyproterone is that it counteracts some of the desirable effects of estrogen on blood lipids. Cyproterone, when used in combination with estrogen, may also share some of the increased risks associated with the synthetic progestin medroxyprogesterone when so used (see below).
If you have access to laboratory testing, a serum testosterone level within the normal female range – about 5-85 ng/dl for total testosterone, or 0.1–2.2 pg/ml for free testosterone – is usually considered ideal. Within the female normal range, lower numbers are not necessarily better.

Progestins (progesterone and synthetics) are sometimes added to a hormone regimen. I consider them unnecessary for most patients.

Progestins are most often given in an attempt to increase breast development. Based on limited anecdotal evidence, I think that improved breast development sometimes can occur, but that the effects are usually not very significant. Progestins can also inhibit testosterone production, and are sometimes used for this purpose. I consider progesterone and other progestins to be unnecessary for most patients, and I prescribe them only rarely. If you decide to take them, here are some typical dosages:

Oral progestins:
medroxyprogesterone (e.g., Provera®), 5-10 mg daily; OR

micronized progesterone (e.g., Prometrium®), 100 mg twice daily; OR

Injectable (intramuscular) progestins:

medroxyprogesterone (e.g., Depo-Provera®), 50 mg every two weeks; OR

progesterone in oil, 50 mg every two weeks.

Oral medroxyprogesterone, the most commonly used product, is very inexpensive, but it has the disadvantage of counteracting some of the beneficial effects of estrogen on blood lipids. Some people find that it causes depression or mental irritability. The recently published Women’s Health Initiative study has also documented an increased incidence of adverse complications in women taking medroxyprogesterone in combination with conjugated estrogens for hormone replacement; this increased incidence of adverse complications was not found with conjugated estrogens alone. Micronized progesterone is a reasonable alternative in those who want to take a progestin. It does not counteract the beneficial effects of estrogen on blood lipids. But micronized progesterone is more expensive, and is often harder to obtain. When taken by mouth, it is partially metabolized to 5-alpha and 5-beta pregnenolone; these metabolites can act as natural tranquilizers, and may promote sleep. This effect may be desirable in patients who suffer from anxiety or insomnia.

After orchiectomy (castration) or SRS, dosages can be reduced. Following SRS, anti-androgens can be discontinued, and estrogen dosage can usually be decreased to one-half or one-quarter of the pre-op dosage, i.e.:

Oral estrogens:
estradiol (e.g., Estrace® or Estrofem®), 1-2 mg daily; OR

estradiol valerate (e.g., Progynova®), 1-2 mg daily; OR

conjugated equine estrogens (e.g., Premarin®), 0.625-1.25 mg daily; OR

ethinyl estradiol (e.g., Estinyl®), 20-50 mcg (0.02-0.05 mg) daily; OR

Transdermal estrogen:

estradiol (e.g., Climara®, Estraderm®, or equivalent), 0.05-0.1 mg, changed per manufacturer's recommended schedule; OR

Injectable (intramuscular) estrogen:


estradiol valerate (e.g., Delestrogen®), 5-10 mg IM every two weeks.
(Injectable estradiol is rarely used after orchiectomy or SRS because the doses required are so small.)

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Return To Hormone Therapy Page
Return To Professional Resources Page

Return To TWR Main Page

© 2004 by Anne A. Lawrence, M.D., Ph.D. All rights reserved.


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,
J.F.
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#33

Hi everyone, ive got 3 people to reply to so ill do a person at a time and thank you for your replys.
Hi Fennel fairy, thank you so much for the advice do those things really work lol i might start to smell abit funny with cabbage leaves down my bra all day lol but seriously thank you i will try some of these, i am very concerned what this will do to my breasts as at the moment they are huge and very hard and they feel like they want to explode, im not sure what effects this will have after i have returned to normal which i hope is very soon. Thanks again xxxx

Hi paloma, thanks for your reply, i have looked in to lactation and causes and realise its not as uncommon as i thought and it can be caused by so many things that i have been doing including massage but also the change in hormones and i have heard stress can cause it to happen in men and women, as for the breast feeding part lol i dont really want anyone getting a free meal from me and the sooner i can stop this the better but my boobs are big lol which is nice. Thanks again and good luck feel free to msg me anytime. xxxx

Hi breastman, this forum is for natural breast enhancement, the list you have just posted are all medical strength hormones for transexuals or transgender and there for no woman or myself for that matter will use it and it should not even be on here to be honest, it belongs on a transgender forum. I have never used any hormones as i dont need too and they are dangerous unless you are under medical supervision. If you want advisce on herbs or pumps or massage then this is the forum you want but all the stuff you have just put in your post belongs somewhere else in my opinion, and i really dont think you should use any of that in your post unless you see a specialist and doctor. Good luck. xxxx
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#34

after having my first child 17 years ago, I never completely stopped lactating. It was rather annoying, but never such a big deal that I had to worry about it. Since I started on the NBE journey, I completely stopped lactating. Isn't it odd how differently our bodies can be effected by the same things.
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#35

Hi itsjust4fun91, it is strange how people react in different ways with NBE it would be alot simpler if we all reacted the same then atleast we would all know what worked and what did not lol. I am very down about my lactating, i have had my results today and i have nothing serious wrong with me and this should go on its own in about 3 to 6 months which i am very unhappy about. I really dont want to stop pumping but i am worried what will happen if i continued, my breasts are so heavy and swollen and feel very pressured and i hate it, i am also leaking and it is horrible, i am so embarresed about this and really fed up. I hope everyone is doing well and i hope i can sort this out fast and get back noogling. xxxx
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#36

hey cheryl! glad to hear nothing is seriously wrong, at least. it may be annoying, but at least it isn't something really bad...

did you get a mammogram done? i thought you said you did... at least did it tell you if your tissue is real or if it is just swollen chest tissue?? that would be so encouraging for you, despite the annoyances, if it is real tissue! that would mean it isn't going anywhere!
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#37

Hi emmie, yes i did have a mammogram it was horrible i found it a little painful and it caused me to leak and it was very embarresing, the nurses and doctor where lovely though but they should be beings i pay private for my health care. As far as breast tissue goes im not sure i never mentioned it but the doctor told me that my breasts had alot of white areas and he said that makes it harder to detect things sometimes but i was normal and there was nothing to cause concern, i seen my mammogram and it looked very white to me and it was only round the ends of my breasts that seemed quite dark but he assured me 100% everything was ok. So i dont know whats breast tissue and whats not to be honest i really wish id have asked now i just did not think at the time as i was stressed and worried, ill try looking it up on the internet to see. Thanks for your concern emmie and i hope all is going well, i really miss my noogleberry lol xxxx
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#38

Hi everyone, i have looked on the internet at what breast tissue looks like on a mammogram and the white areas is breast tissue and dense breast tissue so it looks like i have developed perminent tissue from the looks of my mammogram, im not sure what has developed most of it, either the NB or the BB but i am suspecting it was a combination of both, i also have a high level of estrogen and low testosterone so that has helped me massively. So i am very happy about that and hopefully its some proof that the NB and BB can cause a perminent increase in breast size. The only problem i have now is what my lactating problem will do to my breasts when it goes and if there is anything i can do to help it along and limit the damage, thats if it will do anything. Thanks everyone, hope all is going well. xxxx
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#39

So lactating causes damage, or is it just an undesired effect? I understand that you do not want to lactate, but what damage could it cause?
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#40

Hi sissy, sorry i did not make that very clear lol, what i mean is i know alot of women who have had babys and breast fed and feel there breasts are not the same after and have got smaller and lost shape and im not sure if that will happen to me after my lactating stops or if its just because they breast fed that caused them to change after they had stopped. You must excuse me but i dont know alot about whats happening with me or lactating so im just worried about the effects it will have on my boobs. xxxx
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