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Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - Printable Version

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Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - GoldenBoobs - 26-02-2019

I've been taking 500mg of PM each day, as well as 200mg of maca powder since the beginning of February.

However, I didn't have my period this month. It usually starts by the second week of each month, around the 14th.

I was planning on taking PM everyday, but is it really healthy to have missed periods while on it? 

I've done some searching on the board, but can't find much about cycling PM. Does anyone know of any threads to point me in the right direction? 

Thank you for your help.


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - EllaC - 26-02-2019

(26-02-2019, 10:09 PM)GoldenBoobs Wrote: I've been taking 500mg of PM each day, as well as 200mg of maca powder since the beginning of February.

However, I didn't have my period this month. It usually starts by the second week of each month, around the 14th.

I was planning on taking PM everyday, but is it really healthy to have missed periods while on it? 

I've done some searching on the board, but can't find much about cycling PM. Does anyone know of any threads to point me in the right direction? 

Thank you for your help.


Hi did you find anything in the "methods"Then " puearia " section? 
I think I've seen a few hundred cycling threads over the years lol but they can get lost in these boards  . 
I'm curious too tbh  Smile
Fwiw I'm a huge advocate of reading what "thai  sellers or pharmacies " say re taking PM. They advise dosages safe ones based on your weight age etc and when to take for either breast enlargement or hormone balance. 
Just another way to look at it  Smile


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - Bonny - 27-02-2019

I found this; thought it may interest you!

Its a conversation between a biochemist Passwater and Dr Gordon who is president of American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM) and has other credentials (you can read them at the top of script).  It's an interesting read and has talk about dosages in there!  As well as week off during menses as Thai tradition tells 'young women' to have a week off. As well as traditional preparations. 

http://drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/gordon_2%281%29.htm

And this; the reply is from from Dr. Sandy Schwartz, the world leader in Pueraria science (i've tried to reserach Schwartz before but could never find additional information on him and PM)

https://alternative-doctor.com/body-stuff/pueraria-mirifica-big-breasts-are-great-but/


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - EllaC - 27-02-2019

(27-02-2019, 02:48 AM)Bonny Wrote: I found this; thought it may interest you!

Its a conversation between a biochemist Passwater and Dr Gordon who is president of American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM) and has other credentials (you can read them at the top of script).  It's an interesting read and has talk about dosages in there!  As well as week off during menses as Thai tradition tells 'young women' to have a week off. As well as traditional preparations. 

http://drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/gordon_2%281%29.htm

And this; the reply is from from Dr. Sandy Schwartz, the world leader in Pueraria science (i've tried to reserach Schwartz before but could never find additional information on him and PM)

https://alternative-doctor.com/body-stuff/pueraria-mirifica-big-breasts-are-great-but/


Gordon: In an earlier Phase 1 safety study, conducted by this research group in 2000 and involving ten women, it was found that, when taking 50 mg/day and 100 mg/day of PM, none of the women suffered estrogenic side effects including dysfunctional uterine bleeding, irregular menstruation or breast tenderness. The study concluded that the blood biochemistry tests established the safety of the PM. Of course, this is only a small phase-one study, and in a larger population you always expect individual differences in tolerances of anything, as well as optimal dosage, which is largely dependent on body weight. In other words, individual results may vary and any herb should be discontinued if adverse effects are noted.

I always suggest monitoring blood pressure and being alert for vaginal discharge or bleeding.

Gordon: 2 mg / kg body weight. For the first month that level can be doubled. So a 150-pound woman would require 136 mg of PM / day, but could take, without any problem, 272 mg (or 3 pills / day). Most women will see relief of symptoms in a week or less. The Phase I and the Phase II trials in Thailand were on Asian women, who are normally smaller than Western women, so the dosages they used were small, compared what Western women might need. A convenient and effective regimen for American women of menopausal age would be to take 80 mg of PM twice a day.

Gordon: I assume you’re talking about the craze that swept the Internet, promising larger breasts in just two days. This was taken from the true story about PM enlarging breasts by a full cup size in Japan. More than a decade ago, Japanese cosmetic companies flocked to Thailand to purchase “PM” to mix in creams and to be taken orally. After some time, they sought lower and lower prices. The end result was that the wildcrafters simply mixed in less expensive species. Some Thai wildcrafters are eighth generation. They know the market value of real PM. The original breast enhancement study was done in Tokyo by Japanese Prof. Kuramoshi and Thai Assoc. Prof. Yuthana Smitasiri. They showed that 72% of women taking PM exhibited significant increases in breast size. Younger women had a markedly higher rate of success than older women, who lowered the overall success rate. Some years ago, a company in California launched ISIS, a system using real PM. They guaranteed success or your money back and had 96% satisfied customers, not asking for their money back.


Gordon:  Well, if PM only relieved problems associated with menopause, within a week, it would already be a miracle, but there will soon be studies to show many more significant benefits from PM. One health benefit, I have already stated earlier, is that in the regions where PM grows, they have the lowest breast cancer rate in the world. Their breast cancer incidence is even 40% lower than Japan, where they consume the highest level of phytoestrogens in their daily diet (Please see Table 2 in Part 1). It’s less than 10% of the United States rate. In addition, cell culture studies show that PM is anti-cancer to estrogen-sensitive breast cancer cells. It’s even beneficial for men.


. Adding PM to that formula, we find, acts synergistically so that even the most difficult change of life issues that until now nothing has helped, are responding, often within two-to-four weeks. Therefore, I think PM should be combined with B-12 and folic acid.

“Bonny what a fascinating article and I’m thinking “solgar Pueraria Mirifica which has b12 and folic acid AND only 80mg pm root with the miroestrol and isoflanaoids” is a good bet huh? Plus I got this from this famous hormone doctor also begining with S she has world renowned books also claims solgar s PM is grown from the right region. 

This article highlights everything I’ve read/believe about PM esp doses . Now having 2 bottles of solgars PM at home and being in perimenopause I think il try that instead. My Siam has a much Higher dosage Of 193mg but my weight “63”kgs dictates I’d need around 130mgs ...

BONNY please post this article in the PM section. I’ve seen SOOO MANY girls over the years end up with breakthrough bleeding and double periods AND BREAST LUMPS cause they take 500-2000mgs of PM a day. The above clearly stAtes if you take the recommendation dosage of 2mg per kg body weight you avoid these problems which is what I suggested to Goldengoddess , this is what an actual legitimate pharmacy will suggest. The naysayers will argue with this but I’ve actually been here 5-6 years and I’ve seen them come and go trust me. 


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - EllaC - 27-02-2019

Dr Christiane Northrup that’s the Dr who promotes solgar mentioned above.


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - EllaC - 27-02-2019

People don't like solar or "natures answers" PM  due  to it's lower PM content and higher B12 content . It's actually really common to have the MTHFR gene mutation due to gut dysbiosis  and they don't even know they have it which means you need methylated B vitamins and youl react badly to the B12. 

The link to sibo and IBS IS CLOSE TO 85% and a world renowned sibo practitioner i follow recently said close to 100% of her clients with sibo all have MTHFR gene mutation  which explains why so many who dont tollerate the b12 in supplements esp hormone ones cause hormone imbalances go hand in hand with Gut imbalances. Sorry off on a rant cause this all resonates so true with me and what I've learnt over the years.


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - Bonny - 27-02-2019

(27-02-2019, 05:46 AM)EllaC Wrote:
(27-02-2019, 02:48 AM)Bonny Wrote: I found this; thought it may interest you!

Its a conversation between a biochemist Passwater and Dr Gordon who is president of American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM) and has other credentials (you can read them at the top of script).  It's an interesting read and has talk about dosages in there!  As well as week off during menses as Thai tradition tells 'young women' to have a week off. As well as traditional preparations. 

http://drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/gordon_2%281%29.htm

And this; the reply is from from Dr. Sandy Schwartz, the world leader in Pueraria science (i've tried to reserach Schwartz before but could never find additional information on him and PM)

https://alternative-doctor.com/body-stuff/pueraria-mirifica-big-breasts-are-great-but/


Gordon: In an earlier Phase 1 safety study, conducted by this research group in 2000 and involving ten women, it was found that, when taking 50 mg/day and 100 mg/day of PM, none of the women suffered estrogenic side effects including dysfunctional uterine bleeding, irregular menstruation or breast tenderness. The study concluded that the blood biochemistry tests established the safety of the PM. Of course, this is only a small phase-one study, and in a larger population you always expect individual differences in tolerances of anything, as well as optimal dosage, which is largely dependent on body weight. In other words, individual results may vary and any herb should be discontinued if adverse effects are noted.

I always suggest monitoring blood pressure and being alert for vaginal discharge or bleeding.

Gordon: 2 mg / kg body weight. For the first month that level can be doubled. So a 150-pound woman would require 136 mg of PM / day, but could take, without any problem, 272 mg (or 3 pills / day). Most women will see relief of symptoms in a week or less. The Phase I and the Phase II trials in Thailand were on Asian women, who are normally smaller than Western women, so the dosages they used were small, compared what Western women might need. A convenient and effective regimen for American women of menopausal age would be to take 80 mg of PM twice a day.

Gordon: I assume you’re talking about the craze that swept the Internet, promising larger breasts in just two days. This was taken from the true story about PM enlarging breasts by a full cup size in Japan. More than a decade ago, Japanese cosmetic companies flocked to Thailand to purchase “PM” to mix in creams and to be taken orally. After some time, they sought lower and lower prices. The end result was that the wildcrafters simply mixed in less expensive species. Some Thai wildcrafters are eighth generation. They know the market value of real PM. The original breast enhancement study was done in Tokyo by Japanese Prof. Kuramoshi and Thai Assoc. Prof. Yuthana Smitasiri. They showed that 72% of women taking PM exhibited significant increases in breast size. Younger women had a markedly higher rate of success than older women, who lowered the overall success rate. Some years ago, a company in California launched ISIS, a system using real PM. They guaranteed success or your money back and had 96% satisfied customers, not asking for their money back.


Gordon:  Well, if PM only relieved problems associated with menopause, within a week, it would already be a miracle, but there will soon be studies to show many more significant benefits from PM. One health benefit, I have already stated earlier, is that in the regions where PM grows, they have the lowest breast cancer rate in the world. Their breast cancer incidence is even 40% lower than Japan, where they consume the highest level of phytoestrogens in their daily diet (Please see Table 2 in Part 1). It’s less than 10% of the United States rate. In addition, cell culture studies show that PM is anti-cancer to estrogen-sensitive breast cancer cells. It’s even beneficial for men.


. Adding PM to that formula, we find, acts synergistically so that even the most difficult change of life issues that until now nothing has helped, are responding, often within two-to-four weeks. Therefore, I think PM should be combined with B-12 and folic acid.

“Bonny what a fascinating article and I’m thinking “solgar Pueraria Mirifica which has b12 and folic acid AND only 80mg pm root with the miroestrol and isoflanaoids” is a good bet huh? Plus I got this from this famous hormone doctor also begining with S she has world renowned books also claims solgar s PM is grown from the right region. 

This article highlights everything I’ve read/believe about PM esp doses . Now having 2 bottles of solgars PM at home and being in perimenopause I think il try that instead. My Siam has a much Higher dosage Of 193mg but my weight “63”kgs dictates I’d need around 130mgs ...

BONNY please post this article in the PM section. I’ve seen SOOO MANY girls over the years end up with breakthrough bleeding and double periods AND BREAST LUMPS cause they take 500-2000mgs of PM a day. The above clearly stAtes if you take the recommendation dosage of 2mg per kg body weight you avoid these problems which is what I suggested to Goldengoddess , this is what an actual legitimate pharmacy will suggest. The naysayers will argue with this but I’ve actually been here 5-6 years and I’ve seen them come and go trust me. 


Ella; 
I really like solgar PM, i looked at it several weeks ago.  They have a great name in supplement world (i use alot of their products) and i went to their website to check out where they get PM from what i read i really do think they are not just shipping it in from god knows where and they show that with detailed explanation of PM. I particularly like this statement - 
"Solgar uses an analytical procedure to validate the miroestrol content of PM PhytoGen Complex™"  which means you know that your getting some consistency in their product.  Which seems to be the biggest struggle with PM, i too think that siam while it looks genuine that they seem to be focused on making really 'strong' PM which is looking to be unnecessary and potentially compromising peoples health.  I would be happy to take Solgar at 80mg dose as well.  I think it's really fascinating how many things work in synergy and doesn't surprise me that B12 and folic acid may be part of a winning combination.  

I agree with you suggesting 2mg per kg; but as the article points out 'wildcrafters' have been selling other species of PM for a long time so the real research needs to start there, genuine PM (Thai Kudzu).  If you don't know if it's genuine don't waste your money because the other stuff doesn't work and will give you a myriad of problems. 

https://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/PM-PhytoGen-ComplexTM-Tablets-Pueraria-mirifica.htm


Unfortunately PM is getting a bad name for several reasons, not enough knowledge by consumers on doses etc so they take quantities far exceeding it traditional uses but how can you blame them the information is so mixed. Also not the right PM getting used causes other problems but we don't know that we are only told that its genuine.  And unrealistic expectations, yes there are few fortunate ones that grow melons when they once had grapes in short period but the rest of us it takes time. And my last point would be the fear of phytoestrogens causing cancer; unfortunately this is not supported by anything but internet rumors probably conjured up by pharmaceutical giants. But if we are more careful about what we put in our bodies and start consciously moving away from our chemical laden present existence we will be better off, because the real estrogen to fear is xenoestrogens they are the real enemy and the real cancer causers not phytoestrogen, look at Asian cultures where before GMO/western practices were introduced they were some of the highest consumers of phytoestrogens eg tofu and have/had lowest rates of cancer, if phytoestrogens were really cancer causing they would have the highest rates of cancer not lowest. 

Sorry Ella off on a tangent.  I think Solgar PM may be a great option for you but as you are fully aware and know, it may take time and watch for adverse effects however i think you may get some healing from it! Fingers crossed.


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - EllaC - 27-02-2019

(27-02-2019, 08:09 AM)Bonny Wrote:
(27-02-2019, 05:46 AM)EllaC Wrote:
(27-02-2019, 02:48 AM)Bonny Wrote: I found this; thought it may interest you!

Its a conversation between a biochemist Passwater and Dr Gordon who is president of American College for Advancement in Medicine (ACAM) and has other credentials (you can read them at the top of script).  It's an interesting read and has talk about dosages in there!  As well as week off during menses as Thai tradition tells 'young women' to have a week off. As well as traditional preparations. 

http://drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/gordon_2%281%29.htm

And this; the reply is from from Dr. Sandy Schwartz, the world leader in Pueraria science (i've tried to reserach Schwartz before but could never find additional information on him and PM)

https://alternative-doctor.com/body-stuff/pueraria-mirifica-big-breasts-are-great-but/


Gordon: In an earlier Phase 1 safety study, conducted by this research group in 2000 and involving ten women, it was found that, when taking 50 mg/day and 100 mg/day of PM, none of the women suffered estrogenic side effects including dysfunctional uterine bleeding, irregular menstruation or breast tenderness. The study concluded that the blood biochemistry tests established the safety of the PM. Of course, this is only a small phase-one study, and in a larger population you always expect individual differences in tolerances of anything, as well as optimal dosage, which is largely dependent on body weight. In other words, individual results may vary and any herb should be discontinued if adverse effects are noted.

I always suggest monitoring blood pressure and being alert for vaginal discharge or bleeding.

Gordon: 2 mg / kg body weight. For the first month that level can be doubled. So a 150-pound woman would require 136 mg of PM / day, but could take, without any problem, 272 mg (or 3 pills / day). Most women will see relief of symptoms in a week or less. The Phase I and the Phase II trials in Thailand were on Asian women, who are normally smaller than Western women, so the dosages they used were small, compared what Western women might need. A convenient and effective regimen for American women of menopausal age would be to take 80 mg of PM twice a day.

Gordon: I assume you’re talking about the craze that swept the Internet, promising larger breasts in just two days. This was taken from the true story about PM enlarging breasts by a full cup size in Japan. More than a decade ago, Japanese cosmetic companies flocked to Thailand to purchase “PM” to mix in creams and to be taken orally. After some time, they sought lower and lower prices. The end result was that the wildcrafters simply mixed in less expensive species. Some Thai wildcrafters are eighth generation. They know the market value of real PM. The original breast enhancement study was done in Tokyo by Japanese Prof. Kuramoshi and Thai Assoc. Prof. Yuthana Smitasiri. They showed that 72% of women taking PM exhibited significant increases in breast size. Younger women had a markedly higher rate of success than older women, who lowered the overall success rate. Some years ago, a company in California launched ISIS, a system using real PM. They guaranteed success or your money back and had 96% satisfied customers, not asking for their money back.


Gordon:  Well, if PM only relieved problems associated with menopause, within a week, it would already be a miracle, but there will soon be studies to show many more significant benefits from PM. One health benefit, I have already stated earlier, is that in the regions where PM grows, they have the lowest breast cancer rate in the world. Their breast cancer incidence is even 40% lower than Japan, where they consume the highest level of phytoestrogens in their daily diet (Please see Table 2 in Part 1). It’s less than 10% of the United States rate. In addition, cell culture studies show that PM is anti-cancer to estrogen-sensitive breast cancer cells. It’s even beneficial for men.


. Adding PM to that formula, we find, acts synergistically so that even the most difficult change of life issues that until now nothing has helped, are responding, often within two-to-four weeks. Therefore, I think PM should be combined with B-12 and folic acid.

“Bonny what a fascinating article and I’m thinking “solgar Pueraria Mirifica which has b12 and folic acid AND only 80mg pm root with the miroestrol and isoflanaoids” is a good bet huh? Plus I got this from this famous hormone doctor also begining with S she has world renowned books also claims solgar s PM is grown from the right region. 

This article highlights everything I’ve read/believe about PM esp doses . Now having 2 bottles of solgars PM at home and being in perimenopause I think il try that instead. My Siam has a much Higher dosage Of 193mg but my weight “63”kgs dictates I’d need around 130mgs ...

BONNY please post this article in the PM section. I’ve seen SOOO MANY girls over the years end up with breakthrough bleeding and double periods AND BREAST LUMPS cause they take 500-2000mgs of PM a day. The above clearly stAtes if you take the recommendation dosage of 2mg per kg body weight you avoid these problems which is what I suggested to Goldengoddess , this is what an actual legitimate pharmacy will suggest. The naysayers will argue with this but I’ve actually been here 5-6 years and I’ve seen them come and go trust me. 


Ella; 
I really like solgar PM, i looked at it several weeks ago.  They have a great name in supplement world (i use alot of their products) and i went to their website to check out where they get PM from what i read i really do think they are not just shipping it in from god knows where and they show that with detailed explanation of PM. I particularly like this statement - 
"Solgar uses an analytical procedure to validate the miroestrol content of PM PhytoGen Complex™"  which means you know that your getting some consistency in their product.  Which seems to be the biggest struggle with PM, i too think that siam while it looks genuine that they seem to be focused on making really 'strong' PM which is looking to be unnecessary and potentially compromising peoples health.  I would be happy to take Solgar at 80mg dose as well.  I think it's really fascinating how many things work in synergy and doesn't surprise me that B12 and folic acid may be part of a winning combination.  

I agree with you suggesting 2mg per kg; but as the article points out 'wildcrafters' have been selling other species of PM for a long time so the real research needs to start there, genuine PM (Thai Kudzu).  If you don't know if it's genuine don't waste your money because the other stuff doesn't work and will give you a myriad of problems. 

https://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/PM-PhytoGen-ComplexTM-Tablets-Pueraria-mirifica.htm


Unfortunately PM is getting a bad name for several reasons, not enough knowledge by consumers on doses etc so they take quantities far exceeding it traditional uses but how can you blame them the information is so mixed. Also not the right PM getting used causes other problems but we don't know that we are only told that its genuine.  And unrealistic expectations, yes there are few fortunate ones that grow melons when they once had grapes in short period but the rest of us it takes time. And my last point would be the fear of phytoestrogens causing cancer; unfortunately this is not supported by anything but internet rumors probably conjured up by pharmaceutical giants. But if we are more careful about what we put in our bodies and start consciously moving away from our chemical laden present existence we will be better off, because the real estrogen to fear is xenoestrogens they are the real enemy and the real cancer causers not phytoestrogen, look at Asian cultures where before GMO/western practices were introduced they were some of the highest consumers of phytoestrogens eg tofu and have/had lowest rates of cancer, if phytoestrogens were really cancer causing they would have the highest rates of cancer not lowest. 

Sorry Ella off on a tangent.  I think Solgar PM may be a great option for you but as you are fully aware and know, it may take time and watch for adverse effects however i think you may get some healing from it! Fingers crossed.


I agree with everything you’ve said  Smile And you nailed we did a big thread about PM years ago with Lotus and it’s out there that something like 80% of PM out there isn’t the real deal. I do believe solgar is a good option and I need B12 too. That’s not to say il launch into a PM programme though. I think the scaremongering re phyto’s has gotten to me too  Shy I like reading your posts  Smile


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - Happyme - 01-03-2019

Hi Golden
I'm a little late but I have a thread about cycling thats pretty helpful.

https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=28874

Bobbi


RE: Can someone teach me how to cycle PM? - nanakante - 03-03-2019

This is a common side effect of the PM. An overdose of the herb can lead to the change of your menstrual cycle. Most times, your period is late for over a week. This stops when you lower your daily PM dosage.