16-05-2011, 11:59 AM
questions on when to take what
June 7 2009 at 2:18 PM lori (Login lori333)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi. I would like an opinion on what I have been taking and the timing. I started taking vitex powder in capsules may 17 or 18th, but I should be expecting milk thistle seed, saw palmetto powder, and dong quai on june 17.
don't know if I will actually use dong quai, thought I order just in case.
Would it be futile to continue to take the vitex the first half of this month then use milk thistle the last weeks of this month? how long is it recomended to use milk thistle?
any opinions would be great. thanks!
Author Reply
lori
(Login lori333) Re: questions on when to take what June 9 2009, 11:10 PM
bump
can I take vitex and saw palmetto together? or do I have to use vitex by itself for 3 to 6 months? I think I want to skip the milk thistle. I'm feeling impatient lol, I'm thinking maybe I don't need it.
Edit Message Delete Message
wantbigger9
(no login) Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 1:23 AM
many people did take these 2 herbs together but i would rather go with wondeup since it has a really good feedback and iam using it
Edit Message Delete Message
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 4:28 AM
Vitex and anything can be taken together. Vitex operates differently than Saw Palmetto. It also would be good to observe that Vitex really needs to be taken for about three months straight in order to reach its effectiveness. It is not an herb that you can take for one part of the month but not the other. It does not work by directly binding with receptor sites or by inhibiting/ supporting other bindings.
If you are taking it for BE purposes it will stop your progress. If you do not have a hormone related problem that you are using Vitex to specifically address by raising progesterone sensitivity in the hypothalamus then it would be good to avoid it.
Edit Message Delete Message
lori
(Login lori333) Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 3:00 PM
so other women have used vitex and palmetto together? I'm not sure where I got the idea that I should not take vitex during my period or only by itself. But I guess I take it everyday. I can't say with certainty that I need vitex. I very much suspect that I'm estrogen dominant. I don't think it is so much being estrogen dominant, rather it is more important that estrogen and progesterone are balanced?
well anyway I was rethinking the vitex, wondering if my uncertainty is worth the gamble of taking it for 4 to 6 months.
However I know that I'am underweight (5,4 98 pounds, 22 years old)
so I figure my body can't wait to long to take the palmetto, it would definitely help.
"It does not work by directly binding with receptor sites or by inhibiting/ supporting other bindings" ---not sure what specifics you are referring to. I believe you are referring to vitex binding to dopamine receptors, and that it works if it is able to do that, otherwise if you block dopamine receptors vitex is no longer effective? I see this everywhere, but I think you are saying the opposite?
to the other response, I personally could not trust a company that sells herbs for breast enlargement. If anything I would look into each individual herb to to see what may be best for my case, then buy them seperately.
Edit Message Delete Message
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 3:45 PM
>>"It does not work by directly binding with receptor sites or by inhibiting/ supporting other bindings"
Yep, you have me there. What I meant by that was that Vitex works in the hypothalamus which is different than fenugreek which binds directly to estrogen receptors. I was not thinking about *how* it worked in the hypothalamus, but you are right. It binds to dopamine receptors. But I was trying to show that for hormone balancing purposes it is not direct like phytoestrogens such as fenugreek are.
>>"I don't think it is so much being estrogen dominant, rather it is more important that estrogen and progesterone are balanced?"
As I understand it, most breast development happends before menarche. This is before progesterone is significantly processed in the body because there is no corpus luteum. So, for BE purposes, even though enlargement still takes place in the years that follow, the concept of "balance" is far too subjective to me. As women try to "balance" by focussing on progesterone raising methods, the BE successes tend to go down. There are exceptions to this as Cari pointed out a while back. To me, this points out that "balance" is not the type of 50/50 ratio one normally thinks of when they think of balance, rather, it is the ratio that works for each individual women once they find it. This is also balance. If topicals were more emphasized, it could be that the concept of balance would be a little less of an issue.
Interesting discussion.
This message has been edited by Wahaika on Jun 10, 2009 3:46 PM
Edit Message Delete Message
lori
(Login lori333) Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 6:30 PM
Thank you so much for responding! It really helps.
I know their is no such thing as absolute balance. With hormones their is no "one size fits all" or in this case, "one persons balance applies to all".
I have read in a few places that it does not neccesarily matter what imbalance the individual has, vitex will usually "balance" your hormones. Now that could mean more estrogen then progesterone or vice versa, but if that works for your body..so be it? lol
I'm personally not too anal about where my hormonal levels are at, I could not say, because I have not been to a doc in a long while. I was hoping the vitex would get my hormones a bit more "balanced" as I imagine they have been out of whack.
Interesting to note the menarche progesterone processed part. makes sense to me. could I just get rid of that pesky corpus leteum? lol kidding. If only it was as simple as removing one thing or another.
hmmm..this vitex biz may be too over my head. I may end up doing the palmetto by itself. I have other herbs but I rotate. I have been meaning to set up a progam page so I wont have to have all my stats scattered in the forum. I could use opinions, and I can be a bit indecisive..lol. Frankly I worry that someone I know will figure it was me in here. Then again, everyone I know has well developed boobs, why would they end up here?
June 7 2009 at 2:18 PM lori (Login lori333)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi. I would like an opinion on what I have been taking and the timing. I started taking vitex powder in capsules may 17 or 18th, but I should be expecting milk thistle seed, saw palmetto powder, and dong quai on june 17.
don't know if I will actually use dong quai, thought I order just in case.
Would it be futile to continue to take the vitex the first half of this month then use milk thistle the last weeks of this month? how long is it recomended to use milk thistle?
any opinions would be great. thanks!
Author Reply
lori
(Login lori333) Re: questions on when to take what June 9 2009, 11:10 PM
bump
can I take vitex and saw palmetto together? or do I have to use vitex by itself for 3 to 6 months? I think I want to skip the milk thistle. I'm feeling impatient lol, I'm thinking maybe I don't need it.
Edit Message Delete Message
wantbigger9
(no login) Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 1:23 AM
many people did take these 2 herbs together but i would rather go with wondeup since it has a really good feedback and iam using it
Edit Message Delete Message
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 4:28 AM
Vitex and anything can be taken together. Vitex operates differently than Saw Palmetto. It also would be good to observe that Vitex really needs to be taken for about three months straight in order to reach its effectiveness. It is not an herb that you can take for one part of the month but not the other. It does not work by directly binding with receptor sites or by inhibiting/ supporting other bindings.
If you are taking it for BE purposes it will stop your progress. If you do not have a hormone related problem that you are using Vitex to specifically address by raising progesterone sensitivity in the hypothalamus then it would be good to avoid it.
Edit Message Delete Message
lori
(Login lori333) Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 3:00 PM
so other women have used vitex and palmetto together? I'm not sure where I got the idea that I should not take vitex during my period or only by itself. But I guess I take it everyday. I can't say with certainty that I need vitex. I very much suspect that I'm estrogen dominant. I don't think it is so much being estrogen dominant, rather it is more important that estrogen and progesterone are balanced?
well anyway I was rethinking the vitex, wondering if my uncertainty is worth the gamble of taking it for 4 to 6 months.
However I know that I'am underweight (5,4 98 pounds, 22 years old)
so I figure my body can't wait to long to take the palmetto, it would definitely help.
"It does not work by directly binding with receptor sites or by inhibiting/ supporting other bindings" ---not sure what specifics you are referring to. I believe you are referring to vitex binding to dopamine receptors, and that it works if it is able to do that, otherwise if you block dopamine receptors vitex is no longer effective? I see this everywhere, but I think you are saying the opposite?
to the other response, I personally could not trust a company that sells herbs for breast enlargement. If anything I would look into each individual herb to to see what may be best for my case, then buy them seperately.
Edit Message Delete Message
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 3:45 PM
>>"It does not work by directly binding with receptor sites or by inhibiting/ supporting other bindings"
Yep, you have me there. What I meant by that was that Vitex works in the hypothalamus which is different than fenugreek which binds directly to estrogen receptors. I was not thinking about *how* it worked in the hypothalamus, but you are right. It binds to dopamine receptors. But I was trying to show that for hormone balancing purposes it is not direct like phytoestrogens such as fenugreek are.
>>"I don't think it is so much being estrogen dominant, rather it is more important that estrogen and progesterone are balanced?"
As I understand it, most breast development happends before menarche. This is before progesterone is significantly processed in the body because there is no corpus luteum. So, for BE purposes, even though enlargement still takes place in the years that follow, the concept of "balance" is far too subjective to me. As women try to "balance" by focussing on progesterone raising methods, the BE successes tend to go down. There are exceptions to this as Cari pointed out a while back. To me, this points out that "balance" is not the type of 50/50 ratio one normally thinks of when they think of balance, rather, it is the ratio that works for each individual women once they find it. This is also balance. If topicals were more emphasized, it could be that the concept of balance would be a little less of an issue.
Interesting discussion.
This message has been edited by Wahaika on Jun 10, 2009 3:46 PM
Edit Message Delete Message
lori
(Login lori333) Re: questions on when to take what June 10 2009, 6:30 PM
Thank you so much for responding! It really helps.
I know their is no such thing as absolute balance. With hormones their is no "one size fits all" or in this case, "one persons balance applies to all".
I have read in a few places that it does not neccesarily matter what imbalance the individual has, vitex will usually "balance" your hormones. Now that could mean more estrogen then progesterone or vice versa, but if that works for your body..so be it? lol
I'm personally not too anal about where my hormonal levels are at, I could not say, because I have not been to a doc in a long while. I was hoping the vitex would get my hormones a bit more "balanced" as I imagine they have been out of whack.
Interesting to note the menarche progesterone processed part. makes sense to me. could I just get rid of that pesky corpus leteum? lol kidding. If only it was as simple as removing one thing or another.
hmmm..this vitex biz may be too over my head. I may end up doing the palmetto by itself. I have other herbs but I rotate. I have been meaning to set up a progam page so I wont have to have all my stats scattered in the forum. I could use opinions, and I can be a bit indecisive..lol. Frankly I worry that someone I know will figure it was me in here. Then again, everyone I know has well developed boobs, why would they end up here?