Suction question
March 11 2007 at 9:26 PM Fiona (Login fingerscrossed21)
Hi everyone,
I've been wearing the Brava system for 3 weeks now, and have noticed lots of swelling which is good. Though a lot of the time the system seal breaks.
For the past few days i've started sucking all the air out of the tubes so i get A LOT of suction and then I quickly pluging it back into the smart box and this seems to keep the seal perfectly, i've been wearing it now for 18 hours and haven't had any leaks.
Though i'm worried that making the suction stronger than Brava system requires could be dangerous? Though i've heard that the more suction the better as it makes far more swelling???
Does anyone else do this?
Any thoughts would be great!
Thanks,
Fiona
Author Reply
Seri_Flamehair
(Login Seri_Flamehair)
SENIOR MEMBER
Suction March 11 2007, 11:06 PM
To much can cause some discomfort and also damage the silicon surround on the domes. But other than that don't think so alot of people use the Air-lock device or something like it and it will increase the amount of suction you can achieve.
diana
(Login Diana1978)
SENIOR MEMBER
hey March 11 2007, 11:14 PM
I have done the very same thing you are describing from the very beginning and an doing it again now. no problems with it so far. and i never really had problems with lost suction. good luck to you.
nikky
(no login)
Re: Suction question March 15 2007, 3:16 AM
just so you know the brava rep SWORE to me that any amount of suction more than what the smart box gives does not facilitate growth - it only gives skin problems and such. she said they have done lots of studies. having said that i am still not sure i believe it =)
diana
(Login Diana1978)
SENIOR MEMBER
ok March 15 2007, 5:30 AM
But seriously we all know they dont always know what is the best way to go about things. mine said anything over 12 hrs was unnecessary and that she would rather do longer weeks rather than longer hrs cause all it would lead to is skin problems. but wouldn't it make sense that whatever cause the skin to stretch more the eat cells and breast tissue would have to replicate in order to accomodate the stretch? just a thought. any comments?
Ange
(Login Ange23021980)
Re: Suction question March 31 2007, 12:10 PM
I agree Diana. I notice a big differnce if I wear it for longer hours. I get much bigger swelling. I also find that the followinf night by breasts swell even bigger than before.
I'm hoping to do the same as you. Wear it more hours in less weeks. Holiday in 5 weeks so i am quite commited. I must say though that brava was advertised as being discreat and being able to wear under your clothes for work, who are they kidding?! Can you imagine!!! He he he!
Ange
brava's view upon extra suction
July 1 2007 at 2:05 AM lexy (no login)
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so i decided to write them again to see what they think about using extra suction and this is the answer i got:
"It is absolutely not recommended to do that for 2 reasons. Not only is it NOT measured amounts of pressure since your mouth cannot provide measures of pressure that you will be exerting on your tissue but it is also very damaging to the Domes & Smart Box. It will cause too much pressure on the gel of your domes causing them to prematurely break down and forces the sensor of the Smart Box to mal function. If you have a defect in your Smart Box caused by this, it would not be covered under warranty.
There is also no advantage to getting "more" swelling than is necessary in order to promote growth to the cells. A certain amount of swelling is just wasted & not beneficial to more growth.
Please contact Coaching at 1-80-407-5304 Select Option 5, leave a message for them to give you a callback to discuss this further.
THANK YOU
CUSTOMER SUPPORT
BRAVA LLC "
i think it makes sense.
Author Reply
Seri_Flamehair
(Login Seri_Flamehair)
SENIOR MEMBER Yep July 1 2007, 7:24 AM
As i said all but the damage to the smart box didn't know that could occur but if you have had one of them apart and since i have 4 of them. one damaged beyond repair they are way simple and not intended to be taken apart to be fixed. i was able to get it to work for awhile but that is one of the reasons brava recomends dry cleaning cycles, using alcohol on them damages the little rubber O ring on the vacume.
Louise
(no login) Re: brava's view upon extra suction July 1 2007, 12:22 PM
How do you do the dry cleaning cycle and how long does it take?
misskatherine
(no login) Re: brava's view upon extra suction July 2 2007, 7:42 AM
a dry cleaning cycle is basically letting your smartbox run for 10 minutes (or when the alarm beeps and shuts off) after you take off your brava. you should do this every time after a session to allow your smartbox to completely dry off.
too much suction
December 13 2006 at 7:59 AM Anonymous (no login)
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can to much suction cause skin problems? like using the manual lock to strong.
Author Reply
Patricia
(no login) Re: too much suction December 15 2006, 7:51 PM
I doubt it. Skin problems are very common with Brava users, but it's caused by the way the domes rub against the skin. A friend of mine tried Brava and the domes really chafed her skin horribly. The skin problems with brava are not caused by suction.
Brava users - do you need more suction to get swelling?
November 7 2007 at 7:04 PM Louise (Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
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Has anyone found that they seem to get less swelling than they used to in the same time period? I'm finding I really have to suck hard at the airlock and although the large domes fill easily, I don't think I'm as close to the ends of the XL as I was a few weeks ago. Hard to know if this is genuine or if I've got used to seeing swelling. Think I'm down on the measuring tape but don't bother measuring swelling much any more. On the tape measure there's not much difference between morning and evening but the visual difference and difference in bras is pretty big. Also difficult as my underbust measurement seems to be getting smaller and smaller - if I really breathe out like Brava advise when you order domes I'm only 26 but then I'm 24.5-25 round the waist so don't see how this can be right! Might see if I can buy a bra with a 30 band size to see if I can get it on.
Author Reply
livinonaprayer
(no login) Re: Brava users - do you need more suction to get swelling? November 8 2007, 2:25 PM
I only used sport box so I was unable to control suction but I had pretty much the same morning swelling from day one until the end of my 11 weeks. The only difference was depending on how I positioned the domes, "it appeared" like I filled out the domes more sometimes than others but the measuring tape and the way the bras fit were the same. As the weeks went on, I retained more and did not loose swelling as fast. My underbust measurement is about 30.5" (as you said - depends on the air in your lungs). My before Brava starting over nipple measurement was 33.5" - 34", my morning swelling measurement was 37" - 37.5" and my final measurement after using 11 weeks (I stopped in early June) is maintaining about 35". I plan on beginning another cycle from about December - April to build on my first gains. I would not say I gained a full cup - probably closer to a 1/2 cup size. Probably not noticeable to the average person but noticeable to me and my husband. I still wear the same bras as before but they are more filled out in the top portion and my breasts are not as deflated looking after 2 pregnancies and breast-feeding. I can tell if I look at the pictures I took because you do tend to forget what you looked like before - especially when you see the morning swelling and hope that you'll end up keeping it. I think the Brava brochure is a bunch of crap when it says that near the end of your treatment there is a greater proportion of true tissue growth than swelling. I doubt anyone keeps the swelling. I also was not "halfway there" at week 5 - 6 like they say. It took the whole 11 weeks to gradually see the difference and there was no rapid recoil. After 24 hours of not wearing the system, that is pretty much where I've stayed. Their charts are not very accurate and I think misleading and disappointing because it made me feel like I wasn't progressing and should have been farther along. All I can say is stick with it, try to wear everyday without missing any days and don't over analyze too much. According to their charts, I should have been a rapid responder but the coach said because I have dense breast tissue (according to mammogram) and little upper body fat (it's all in the hips) I may actually be a slower responder. Never mind the previous weight loss, pregnancies, and immediate swelling the next morning. I think the coaches just have an excuse for whatever complaint or concern you have. Good luck to all! It requires a lot of patience and persistance but it's worth it when you're finally done and can sleep on your stomach again and cuddle with you man!
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Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Brava users - do you need more suction to get swelling? November 8 2007, 5:39 PM
Hi Livingonaprayer, have you had a mammogram since? My boobs are pretty much rock solid to the touch and where I've lost 30 lbs I have hardly any fat above the waist - I can see ribs between my boobs and extra shoulder bones and stuff so does this mean I'm not increasing fat tissue just breast tissue? I'd actually like to put a bit of meat on my top half but still need to work on my lower half so keeping the diet going and doing lower body toning workout. I think you said you've grown since Brava but I didn't understand your bra size system. I seemed to have gained an inch over bust and lost half to one inch underbust. Still sticking with Andrew Dobson but the only times I can hear the actual booby bit are the times when I've been disturbed so not got deep into state. Are you taking any herbs?
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livinonaprayer
(no login) Re: Brava users - do you need more suction to get swelling? November 8 2007, 9:24 PM
Hi Louise,
I did have a mammogram since Brava because I found a lump after I stopped using the system. I also had an ultrasound and biopsy. I did not notice the lump during Brava because there was always some slight swelling that remained. It turned out to be a fibroadenoma. My doctor said I probably always had it but it became noticeable to me since Brava. My doctor said I can use Brava for a second cycle even with the fibroadenoma. Brava coach advised I not use again unless I have it removed. Brava literature says if findings from biopsy are benign, you can use Brava so I'm going to try a 4 - 5 month cycle and then have it checked again. I don't know if she's right, but my doctor said Brava added some fat (apparently we all must have a tiny bit of fat cells in there) even if our breasts don't get larger with weight gain. She said the added fat makes the breast tissue slightly less dense and not as tight together. My bra size was 34A and sometimes 34B but gapped on top depending on the bra. A 34B fits perfect now and seems more filled out. I would say I gained 1 inch across the nipple measurement. My underbust measurement stayed the same. I hardly have any upper body fat. It is all from the hips to knees. I am bottom heavy. My waist is about 25" and my hips are about 38" at the largest part. I wish I could relocate it to the top. I know what you mean about seeing ribs and bones on the top. I'm trying to keep working out. I do eat well now. I used to eat a lot of junk food but now I eat a lot of whole grains, protein (chicken, turkey, pork tenderloin, tuna), soy milk, low fat cheese, fruit and take flax oil and a multi-vitamin every day. I now drink a lot of water and stay away from sodas and sugar-sweetened drinks. I figured if protein helps build muscles, maybe it would help here too. I have not tried herbs or any type of pills or creams. I'm just going to go the Brava route one more cycle and then whatever I get from that will be it for me. I need to lose about 5 - 10 more lbs. to be at my ideal weight and finally loose the fat on my hips and thighs! Good luck - it sounds like you've really researched and educated yourself and are doing great!
Duration of Wear vs. Suction
November 16 2007 at 1:36 PM livinonaprayer (no login)
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Just a question for those of you who have used Brava and some of the other systems. I have not researched anything but Brava, but a previous post mentioned Bosom Beauty and using a short time with intensive suction. Do you think that small amount of time would add true growth or only swelling? I just think of an injury like a twisted ankle where you have trauma then swelling.
While talking to my OB/GYN about Brava she gave me a brochure called Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (it's old - Volume 105, Number 7, June 2000). The document says that breast size in healthy premenopausal adult women is stable and varies with pregnancy, hormonal intake, body weight fluctuations, and to a smaller extent, during the menstrual cycle. The document says Brava works ton increase this breast size because when you stretch the cells, they flatten and then respond to this tension by replicating until they fill the gap. It further states that water edema accounts for the initial noticeable enlargement and is reversible and it is only after continued use and sustained stretch that tissue growth is stimulated. I just wonder if these short-period of use systems only give you the edema without true growth because those cells are not sustaining stretch. I also wonder if that intensive suction is good for a cell or just damaging. Also, I have not tried any pills or creams, but are they similiar to how Men's Rogaine works, so that you have to continually use them to have growth and once you stop, you lose the growth (or hair in the case of Rogaine)! Any thoughts?
My opionion is if you want lasting growth, you have to put in the hours with Brava.
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Author Reply
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Duration of Wear vs. Suction November 16 2007, 8:20 PM
A very few people have reported true growth with BB. I think it may work more in terms of body building, like you abuse the tissue and when it heals it grows slightly. Don't think it does any damage in the long run - again you can control the pressure, so don't do it so it hurts (I airlock my Brava pretty tight but this felt like it was ripping my nipples off!).
In terms of herbs, I think for most people IF they do work, you will often see the first sign as increased luteal swelling then true rgowth follows so if it stays beyond your period it's probably permanent - have a look through the personal programs. Obviousy if you breastfeed, work out a lot or lose weight you'll probably lose it and also they don't work for everybody. Massage is very important too but all of these things probably take as long as Brava anyway and at least Brava gives you some swelling to look at in the meantime! I take wonderup too, which I think now I'm on meds for the PCO may be beginning to have some effect as boobs look a bit wider although I think most of what I have is due to Brava and hoping and praying I get to keep it.
After I'm done with Brava I intend to have 2 weeks off then retake my measurements before giving BB a go, hoping to do 10-12 weeks (they recommend 8) then I need a 4 month break to be ready for another 6 months of Brava next autumn. If I keep what I see after 11-12 hours now I'll be addicted and aiming for the Ds!
compensating time with suction?
November 15 2007 at 11:00 PM dandelion (Login dandelion1)
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so I've finally decided to bring the brava along with me on vacation. I am leaving for two weeks (in two weeks) and will be backpacking and staying in hostels. I will not be able to put in the necessary time, I'll actually be happy with an average of 8 hours per day. I was wondering if this time can be compensated with added suction? I am using the airlock system so this will be possible. I know I'm supposed to put in 10, but this is just not possible. Thinking about the bosom beauty, you only do a couple of hours per day with intensive suction.... i won't be doing it that intensive because the brava domes aren't made for that just more suction than usual... any thoughts? i would hate to have to start all over....it almost makes me not want to go.....i would have more fun on vacation as well if i could wear a bikini without feeling embarassed, and the morning swelling would be nice in a bathing suit (even if it goes down at night, that's fine cuz I'll be changed.
ANY THOUGHTS?????????????
Author Reply
livinonaprayer
(no login) Re: compensating time with suction? November 16 2007, 1:09 PM
How many weeks have you already put in? Have you missed any days? Have you had at least 10 weeks so that you can stop using for your trip and than start another cycle later? I used for 11 weeks and then took a 2 week vacation and I did not take it on my vacation as I spent a lot of time at the beach and was staying out late and didn't want Brava to interfere. I also could not have worn a bikini with the obvious dome rings around my breasts even though the swelling would have looked great. Also, make sure you use sunscreen or those dome rings may end up a different color than the surrounding area. Could you contact a Brava coach and see if the 8 hours/day is enough to have growth? I would assume it's better than nothing if you've already completed at least 10 weeks of wear. Their literature says if you wear less than 8 1/2 hours per day, it is considered missing an entire day. If you wear less than 10 but at least 8 1/2 for a single day within a week you do not need to make up but if you wore only 8 1/2 for 2 consecutive days, you need to add 5 days to your overall wear time. I don't know if extra suction would make a difference or not since the brochure also talks about the suction being applied based on duration of time cells remain stretched, not amount of suction so I would assume a longer duration is better than more suction. Of course, the sportbox does not allow you to change suction and since Brava didn't design the airlock, I can't say for sure. If you are not at 10 weeks, but pretty close, could you delay your trip by a few weeks? If you are a person who wants to still do several more weeks or months beyond your trip, maybe your 8 hours per day would be worth it for you. I think I've rambled, but I would say if you have in your 10 weeks already, and you wear it 8 hours during your vacation and then go back to your 10 hours when you return you shouldn't be set back that much. As a note, I called the Brava coach before my 2-week trip and she said that because I was past my 10 weeks, I was in "overtime" and she encouraged me to take Brava with me on vacation even if I got less than 10 hours because the cells would still be used to the stretching routine and I could wear for less during vacaction as long as I wore it every day and then when I returned home I could go back to my regular schedule but she said if I missed 6 consecutive days, it would be like starting a new cycle again. Only you can decide but I think a lot depends on how many weeks you've already completed and how many weeks you plan to wear.
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dandelion
(Login dandelion1) Re: compensating time with suction? November 16 2007, 3:50 PM
hey! thanks for the response...i would actually be on my fourth week when i START my vacation.......so i know its not that dramatic but STILL four weeks on brava is L-O-N-G so i would hate to have to restart completely.................
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: compensating time with suction? November 16 2007, 8:27 PM
I'm going for long hours, 30 weeks and as much suction as I can sleep in! Some girls have used a system called Noogleberry where you pump for 10-30 mins 1-2x daily manually with a plasctic hand pump and use domes similar to brava without the silicone padding. People are getting growth like that, whether it's true growth or just swellign who knows but I'd say some is better than none but when you come back you probably want to do at least another 12 weeks. I'd second the comment about the sunscreen, also don't use fake tan as the domes rub it off in odd looking circles! You could try the body makeup thats like wash-off fake tan (some are water proof but scrubbing with soap will remove), then you can use a bit more round the boobs to cover the dome marks. Make sure you have a patterned red / brown bikini top so it doesn't show the makeup marks...hope you have a great time...when I'm done with all this and the lower body workouts I'm hoping to go on hols with hubby to show him....hope he notices!
Science Fun Facts
January 5 2009 at 10:29 AM Kristin (Login kd006)
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Some interesting observations from the lab (kitchen):
I bought a used Brava system a while ago, haven’t used it much because of all the time it requires. LOL read the manual, not me. So today I dug out the manual and to my surprise they actually publish their vacuum settings! All this time I thought it was a big secret, but right there in black and white the manual it says 33 mm Hg and on another loose page listed the vacuum as 30 mm Hg, and a low restart at 15 mmHg. So what does all this mean?
I have been following along here with people using the Brava and other domes with airlocks and just sucking out the air, so I got to wondering just how much vacuum that was. Searched the internet for an hour trying to find anything about the human lung capacity for pressure and vacuum with little success. So what else is a mad scientist to do but conduct some experiments! First problem I had 2 foot of tubing, at 30mm Hg = 17.7” of water column I had already found out earlier that the Brava sports box sucked that much (yup sucked water out of the cup and spit it out the vents). So I searched and found some more tubing, added another 4 foot just to be sure. Ok so fill up the Pyrex measuring cup full of water, string the tube through a stainless steel funnel to keep it submerged and connect the sports box. Turned it on holding it at eye level and it ran a bit and it shut off. Tried a couple more times to get an accurate reading and came up with about 27 inches water column which equals 50.4 mm Hg. So apparently the calibration on these things is not what it’s cracked up to be especially at their several hundred dollar cost.
Next was the suck test, same 6 foot of tubing, I could almost draw the water up to my mouth (guessing 54 inches) taking a second harder suck I was able to get it all the way about 60 inches/112mm Hg. Now I have to laugh because in my searching I did come across an experiment for kids to use 50 foot of hose in a stair well and measure how far they could suck water and soda up the tube, since I live in a one floor house and it was dark and cold and I had no intention of climbing on the roof I am really not sure what is possible. I did however find a gauge from a blood pressure cuff I had about and blowing into that only managed about 130mm Hg/69.7 inches water column.
So on to breast pumps, again I had had a disappointing experience buying one used, although it came with two battery powered pump heads neither one seemed to be really working as far as sucking goes. My investigation today revealed that the really good ones have a vacuum of 50 to 275mm Hg vacuum that is adjustable and about 40-60 sucks per min seems standard. So I just scored an Ameda Egnell 50 SMB hospital grade pump off of eBay for $200 with free delivery! It should be a lot quieter than a bosom beauty and all the other cheap eBay pumps that cost twice as much. It actually looks and is a quality piece of lab equipment, cast aluminum base, quality motor and one heck of a big slow moving piston pump, all topped off with a Lexan cover.
I also ordered up a couple of stepper motor driven pumps with controller boards that can interface to a computer for experimentation, range in those is probably 50-150mm Hg. Might be interesting to see where that leads to some even slower pumping cycles and hold times if I can figure out the interface and write a control program.
Just for fun, let’s look at the real forces using a basic model in this case my Brava domes, they are about 4 inch across and 5 inch high just to round off for the curved edges, so each is 20 sq. inches or .14 sq. foot in area. Apply 100mm Hg to that and it equals 279 pounds per sq. foot or 39 pounds of pull on each breast; at 250mm Hg it would be 97.5 pounds of pull. No wonder with some of the smaller round domes it gets so uncomfortable, that is equal to pressing inward that hard.
Isn’t science wonderful?
Kristin
Author Reply
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Science Fun Facts January 5 2009, 3:26 PM
Hi Kristin,
Way to go you mad scientist you... lol. I know that the scientific studies on Brava were always touting low suction pressure. So if I get your right you are saying that the Brava was pulling 50mm Hg versus the maximum of 30mm Hg that is advised.
On the Noogleberry forum, one of the users has a pump that has a brass trigger vacuum pump with a gauge to control the pressure. He states that he uses 15 - 30mm Hg. He also uses enormous domes - what are the original XL Noogleberry cups (now called the XXL). I haven't seen them but supposedly they are like dinner plates at the base. His results are phenomenal and he says that suction is the only method he uses.
I await with interest any further results of your diabolical experiments... lol.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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molehills
(no login) Re: Science Fun Facts January 6 2009, 2:32 AM
hi Kristin, good work! I have an Ameda Elite hospital grade pump, and I want to try getting some bb domes and using it. But it occurs to me that there needs to be some kind of in-line filter to prevent moisture/oil etc getting into the pump. It's a closed system, not the kind of pump you could open up and clean inside as far as I know. Any ideas? Have looked around the web a little but don't see anything suitable. I guess it might be possible to use the milk collection unit (Hygienikit) which has a filter but then there's the further problem of how to attach tubing to it from the domes(maybe via the breast flange somehow). A disposable in-line filter that could take the required pressure seems simpler. If you have any ideas let me know!!
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Kristen
(Login Kristen10) RE: Science Fun Facts January 6 2009, 4:30 AM
Hi Kristin (great name, btw)
Have you tried this pump yet? Can you connect it with the standard Brava tubing/domes, and wear to bed?
Please keep us in the loop on your experiments...
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roakie
(Login roakie)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Science Fun Facts January 6 2009, 6:01 AM
I am not a scientist by any means (nearly flunked biology and chemistry) so I am not totally sure what you are trying to say. I am currently using Brava with the smartbox, and alternatively, some nights with manual suction. Are you saying the Brava smartbox is very weak? Have your experiments found that we, as Brava users, should be able to create far more suction inside the domes manually?
The problem with me is that the Smartbox seems to give me more swelling than manual suction. I have alternated numerous times, and the smartbox retains the suction while the manual suction gets very tights (sticking so hard into my ribs I can barely stand it) and then it loses air very gradually (even with a check valve and two applications of no-sting wipe to create more stickiness to my chest.
I am confused.
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Kristin
(Login kd006) Re: Science Fun Facts January 6 2009, 8:34 PM
Molehills:
Lots of filters out there, off the top of my head you could get a airline filter and the right adaptors to fit the BB or Brava size tubeing, a small inline gasoline filter like used on lawn equipment or an inline fuel filter from the autoparts store. Probably need to get some tubeing adaptors from small to large to adapt it. When I get the pumps and search out what I need I will try and post some better suggestions or part numbers that will work.
Kristen:
See above, no havent received either of the pumps yet, probably not till next week as I haven't seen anything ship yet.
Roakie:
I can see where the Brava box would provide long term suction, and work better because as you mentioned the domes leak down after a while, I am hopeing the smaller vacuum pumps I ordered with controler board will be able to work like the brava box and cycle on when needed and maintain the vacuum, hopefully at a bit higher level.
Really was just spewing information, I was just overcome with curiosity as to what the vacuum levels were from the Brava box, manual sucking on the tube etc. Would love to hear what the BB box does if someone has a length of aquarium tubing and a stairwell to run a test, just to know what 6 o'clock, 12 o'clock and 9 o'clock pull in inches of water column for comparison.
roakie
(Login roakie)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Science Fun Facts January 6 2009, 8:46 PM
Oh, well that sounds cool. If the newer pump works and you can get greater suction than the smartbox, please keep us informed. That sounds interesting and something I might want to try!