Natural Breast Enhancement Forums

Doubts about PM
February 4 2009 at 4:17 PM
SvelteCutie (Login SvelteCutie)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well after having a nice post chat with waxingmoon and finding other info on PM I am beginning to wonder if it is worth trying. Not saying it doesn't work, but worried that it may not last and then there's always that looming thought of it throwing hormones out of balance when I am trying my darndest to get things prepped and in harmony before starting NBE.

I found an old post by a girl name Keiko. She's a Dr. in medical biology and the few times I chatted with her online I found her input very helpful. Here's what she had to say about PM.:



I was asked to reproduce an information I posted a while ago. I am NOT a medical doctor, I am a doctor in medical biology (the effects of medicines and other substances and influences on the body and on its metabolism and health), so this is from my professional point of view AND my personal experience with shaping the body:

Hi girls.

I have posted some weeks ago a Pueraria warning here, I say it again: Pueraria is a strong phytoestrogen that HAS IMPORTANT RISKS! Please read my previous message on Pueraria where I explain why what can work just fine in asiatic people grown up on phytoestrogens daily (SOY products as tofu ) can be UNHEALTHY for people grown up with no phytoestrogens at all and mainly on a protein diet.

Also to put a cream of pueraria on the hips will not make difference with to put it on the elbow or on a leg, phytoestrogens have no local effect, only systemic (all body) effect when are absorbed by the blood, Any effect from a phytoestrogen cream is because is absorbed to the blood and there it competes with our own estrogens going to the receptors of the estrogens and mimicking (playing as if it is) real estrogens, which can be dangerous if your body is not made for that. By "made for that" I mean that in asia we grow up (when the body is on the making) with daily doses of phytoestrogens in our food, and we develope a body metabolism for differentiation and use of that, while people on western diets arrive to adulthood (full developed hormonal system and body) with no preparation for how to cope with high dosages of phytoestrogens. This is a scientific fact.

There is also a big difference between estrogens and phytoestrogens: if you get extra estrogens, these incorporate to your own estrogenic flow and simply increase the quantity of estrogens in your body and in consequence may produce hormonal unbalances, elevated risk for cancer and what is worst for our case, masculinization because of what is called estrogen dominance, making us grow moustache and getting belly etc.

Phytoestrogens, when they enter in your system they don't behave as estrogens, they simply go to the receptors (the places that receive our estrogens messsages on how the body must behave and look) and "play" estrogens unloading messages similar to those of estrogens for the body behaves as if having extra estrogens. Because of this difference is that sellers of phytoestrogens say that phytoestrogens have no the risks of estrogens,what is total and absolute lie because phytoestrogens wil not produce cancer risk but will surely induce worst hormonal unbalance not easy to correct later, estrogen dominance syndrom including masculinization of the body shape (even if getting bigger breasts) and will change totally the way your own estrogens behave making these less because the body asssumes are not needed. PHYTOESTROGENS ARE NOT RISKFREE! And as I say again, if your body is not used to handle these, better stay away of the strong ones as Pueararia also called Krow Ka or you may be looking for trouble.

Also I could like to say that the search for the "magic pill" is a chimera which is not possible to achieve by one simply reason: our bodies are complex systems in which each substance is in balance with many others and to change only one substance can only produce UNBALANCE and chaos in the body that will try to cope with the changes as if it is a threat. As a matter of fact, illnesses (or most of them) are either caused by or their first symptom is the unbalance of one thing in your body and that carries the remaining parts down. Also ALL the many second effects of most (if not all) medicines are exactly because they change one thing only.
Our body is a SYSTEM and if you introduce or increase only ONE substance, you are just producing unbalance and not healthy or progressive change, simply as that. This is the reason because a "magic pill" cannot exist, a one substance will never change a whole body.

Well, the matter is that PUERARIA IS NOT RISKFREE and strong phytoestrogens are dangerous. ALso phytoestrogens don't give you more feminine body depending on quantity, if not think that all asiatic women grown up on soy should have big breasts and large hips and butt given the quantity of phytoestrogens they take in childhood and puberty. Instead the contrary is true, asiatic women are typically small breasted and small hips and butt BECAUSE of the quantity of phytoestrogens that de-sensibilize our bodies to our own estrogens. So in phytoestrogens, More is LESS. It could happen an increase in breast initially because the body will think you are in a second puberty (but no hips or butt), and the breast will fade off slowly and unbalace will be the only remain.



Author Reply

SvelteCutie
(Login SvelteCutie) Re: Doubts about PM February 4 2009, 4:32 PM


English isn't her first language so that's the reason some of her words/sentences are a bit off. Anyway, it is not my intent to scare people off from PM, it's just that with the info I found it would seem to be a bit dishonest to know this info without passing it on.

I've decided I'm going to leave PM alone. It breaks my heart because I really wanted it to work but I don't think this is the NBE for me.


Edit Message Delete Message

madboobie
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 4 2009, 4:40 PM


I am beginning to agree with you.

The question is, what is? (the right NBE.....)

I might try a half dose of PM for a month but the thread you've posted above makes sense to me.

The only trouble with alternative methods is I've done noogleberry, can't afford Brava nor do I think I could cope with the isolation of it, ditto bosom beauty.

Which seems to leave Bovine Ovary (scary and not sure if can be got in UK), single herbs (but somewhat scared of fenugreek and smell), Wonderup again (but tried it for 10 months), magnets which seem slightly strange and not terribly effective as far as I can make out, hypnosis...

Yep, there's a lot to think about!

So onward and upward with massage I suppose. On which note I have considered a massage bra.... (ebay)

!!!!!!


Edit Message Delete Message


SvelteCutie
(Login SvelteCutie) Re: Doubts about PM February 4 2009, 5:10 PM


Girl we should get together and brainstorm! As of right now tigerlily's and fengshui's regimens are looking more and more promising. I am not of asian descent so I don't know if that would have any factor on my success with their programs, doesn't hurt to try though.


Edit Message Delete Message

ShyBoobs
(no login) Ooh... February 4 2009, 6:21 PM


Well d@mn. That put a small damper on how I feel about PM. But at the very least, I'm taking low doses of PM and since I'm seeing results I'm just gonna tough it out. I've been going too long without boobs to stop now lol. If I wasn't seeing anything happening for me and noticed a lot of side effects, then I would stop. And cancers are not prevelant in my family, so might as well keep it up.

I say long as you or your family doesn't have a history of cancer, you're seeing results and are taking LOW doses then it shouldn't be a prob. It would prolly be wise to do a cleanse periodically as well.

Thanx sveltecutie, for the info.



Edit Message Delete Message

madboobie
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 4 2009, 8:40 PM


ShyBoobs, which Pm are you on and what dosage are you taking?

I am taking PM UK stuff which equals 1000mg daily and I fear it is TOO STRONG!!


Edit Message Delete Message

ShyBoobs
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 4 2009, 9:50 PM


Hey chica,

I'm taking a US brand called Siriporn. If you check out the 'New Ro-Bust' thread you'll see. I'm using cream and caps, good stuff. I only take 200 mgs per day for 15 days. The actives are supposed to be more concentrated than most other brands, so that's why you don't need 800+ mgs.


Edit Message Delete Message

rhapsody
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 5 2009, 7:10 AM


I have to say, I disagree with a lot of what she has to say. She repeatedly compares asians to non-asians, and argues that asians' higher exposure to soy phytoestrogens (and possibly other phytoestrogens) prepares asian women for pueraria, but since non-asians don't eat that much soy, they aren't ready for pueraria. That doesn't seem to be a very good argument to me, because almost all of the phytoestrogens in nature are very weak, usually 1/1000th the strength of estradiol at most, and usually only compose a small amount of the plant's weight. Most of the research on soy isoflavones that has been done has been in petri dishes or with unrealistic doses in rodents who've had their ovaries removed. In normal people, if anything, soy isoflavones are more likely to reduce the effect of estrogen than to enhance it:

http://www.innovations-report.com/html/r...53924.html

Since most phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptors but stimulate them very weakly, they may end up blocking stimulation from your body's natural estrogens more than they themselves add. This would likely lead to a masculinizing effect, since your body would pump up production of all sex hormones to compensate (including testosterone, which women also produce) for the apparent lack of estrogen.

Pueraria is the exception to the weak-phytoestrogen rule: it has miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol, both of which are more potent than estradiol, and present in fairly large amounts. Saying that eating soy daily prepares you for pueraria mirifica is like saying that drinking 1/100th of a beer every day will make you able to drink 10 beers without getting drunk.

However, she's quite right that pueraria has risks. Soy phytoestrogens won't prepare you for the effects of pueraria. Nothing will. Pueraria is a powerful herb, with powerful effects, some of which are good, and some of which are not. Be careful with your dosage. Pay attention to your bodies. If you start noticing something that scares you, reduce your dosage. If that doesn't clear it up, stop taking PM and try something else.


Edit Message Delete Message

Moon
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 5 2009, 9:56 AM


Rhapsody - What you say makes theoretical sense, and yet in practice these weak estrogenic herbs have often produced breast growth and other feminization effects. I think the only way to explain this is that there are a lot more receptors in the body than there are hormones and hence even the weak phytoestrogens can add to the total estrogenic action, rather than compete and diminish it.


Edit Message Delete Message

SvelteCutie
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 5 2009, 4:20 PM


rhapsody you and Kaiko(had spelled her name wrong the first time) actually agree. You say soy isoflavones will generally diminish estrogen over time and Kaiko said that here:


"...ALso phytoestrogens don't give you more feminine body depending on quantity, if not think that all asiatic women grown up on soy should have big breasts and large hips and butt given the quantity of phytoestrogens they take in childhood and puberty. Instead the contrary is true, asiatic women are typically small breasted and small hips and butt BECAUSE of the quantity of phytoestrogens that de-sensibilize our bodies to our own estrogens..."

Her point with eating the soy is basically that if eaten all your life, your body develops a higher tolerance to phytoestrogens, including pueuraria. What she doesn't say is that asians aren't at risk from taking pueraria. Regardless of diet background, there will likely be risks, just perhaps taken longer to affect one group based on diet than another. Her audience at the time were westerners, that's why she was putting such emphasis on why our diet and asians diet matters in what we can cope with better.

You are what you eat.



Edit Message Delete Message

SvelteCutie
(no login) Well no, I lied, LOL February 5 2009, 4:38 PM


I actually found a couple more posts from her and she does tend to think asians can cope better with pueraria. Which may be curiously true. If pueraria wrecked havoc on a person no matter their dietary background, it would surely have shown up in history and the natives where the herb is grown would stay away from it. But they don't. They eat it with no problems at all.




The problem is that Pueraria is a strong phytoestrogen (estrogen from
plant source)that in the body looks for the same connections
(receptors)as our natural hormones (estrogens)and eleveta our
quantity of female hormones response and levels. Now, what happens is
that in Thailand, Japan and China, since childhood, you eat a diet
full of cereals with moderate quantity of phytoestrogens so, your
body grows up used to those kind of phytoestrogens going around in
your system (you can see that most guys from those countries have
very few body hair and quasi feminine skin and so). So when you take
a potent phytoestrogen as Pueraria, you are able to process it and
absorb it good. However, in other regions of the world, ou grow up
with lots of meat and vegetables, some few cereals but none of the
phytoestrogens producing cereals or foods, so if you one day go on
something like Pueraria, makes to you esactly the same as if you take
pure hormones and is proven now that excess of hormones taking can
many times produce cancer, hormonal imbalances, masculinization, etc.

So, please TAKE CARE with Pueraria, is not for unprepared bodies, a
huge tasty cheesburger and a coke per day will probably take long to
make you any damage but to people in Japan, Thailand and China have
carried coronary fatal diseases, digestive ulcers and nutritional
defficiencies practically unknown before until whole generations
grew up with that diet.



And here's her responding to someone who inquires if they can build up a tolerance to use pueraria:


Well, my personal opinion is that the diet you grew up with makes who
you are (your body that is) in adult life, so as much as an asian
girl (from previous generations) will never take good large
quantities of meat, the same you will not take good long periods or
large quantities of phytoestrogens because you were not raised eating
that in your daily food (in soy or so) I would not dare to try to
adapt as you want but if you anyway want to, (please be aware of the
risks in health) I would say to take at least one year of adaptation
taking soy first weekly then daily (increase each two weeks the
amount) in the diet and then begin the pueraria at one third of
recommended dosage for a couple of months,later half dose for another
two months and later full dosage. Yes, the process is long, but you
are trying to change how you were taught (your body I mean) to react
to foods and supplements. I know pueraria sounds attractive but
please take care








Edit Message Delete Message

SvelteCutie
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 5 2009, 4:41 PM


These are her opinions, not scientific law so feel free to agree or discredit. I just happen to find her viewpoint very insightful, not saying everyone else has to agree.


Edit Message Delete Message

seek.the.truth
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 6 2009, 1:42 AM


"... what happens is that in Thailand, Japan and China, since childhood, you eat a diet full of cereals with moderate quantity of phytoestrogens so, your body grows up used to those kind of phytoestrogens going around in your system (you can see that most guys from those countries have
very few body hair and quasi feminine skin and so) ..."

Statements such as the one quoted above have no scientific basis. Genetics, along with the role of androgens during puberty, are why some men are hairier than others. Men of Thai, Japanese and Chinese descent who grow up in America and thus eat an "American" diet are still much less hairy than men of other ethnicities (e.g. Jewish men). It's not due to the food they consume, but the DNA they inherited.

I am appalled that Kaiko, who claims she is a "Dr. of medical biology," is touting her opinions under the guise of a "professional point of view". She has made other statements that I found disconcerting. It's fine to state opinions, but don't throw in your title to validate such opinions. Please stop posting misleading/false info.

I am neither in favor of or against PM. It's a no brainer that there are risks with the foods, herbs, supplements, medicines, etc. we ingest. As with everything, we must do a thorough research and consider whether or not the info, along with their sources, are valid and reliable.


Edit Message Delete Message

SvelteCutie
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 6 2009, 4:30 PM


Stop posting misleading/false info? Where is your proof Kaiko's point of view is completely invalid? And I mean that, not a challenge. If you don't like what she has to say then fine overlook this post but to whine and complain she's wrong with no proof of it, well it falls on deaf ears. Unless you gripe loud enough, lol.

But I'm serious, if she's wrong then hey I am completely open to hearing reasonable alternative explanations, as I already stated these are just opinions to begin with.


Edit Message Delete Message

SvelteCutie
(no login) Re: Doubts about PM February 6 2009, 6:29 PM


I think it would be a good idea to find info to both sides of Kaiko's theory(researched info as to why you believe it or why you don't). PM is still such a mystery to so many of us, you can see the confusion about it here on the boards. As long as there aren't any accusations or offended feelings with nothing to back them up, I think this can be a very good and informative discussion.


Edit Message Delete Message

SvelteCutie
(no login) Soy Has Anti-drogenic effects February 7 2009, 1:48 AM


By the way seek.the.truth, I was playing around on the internet and found that soy appears to be antidrogenic via genistein and daidzein, two of the isoflavones in it. Antidrogens block male hormones, which includes less body hair.

Also genistein and daidzein stimulates the human body to make more hyaluronic acid which is known to hydrate the skin and make it smoother.

These were only a couple articles I found referring to scientific studies. I'll keep looking to see if I can find more solid info on it.


Edit Message Delete Message

SvelteCutie
(no login) I cannot spell... February 7 2009, 1:51 AM


Meant antiandrogenic and antiandrogen.

Marketing Scam or the Real Thing?
August 15 2009 at 10:13 PM Amanda (no login)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although it doesn't feel like it. When I hit fifteen and realized, looking up at the women in my family, that my breasts weren't going to grow past the size of a twelve year olds, I was upset. For four years since than I've looked on the upside, tried to embrace myself and my sexuality as it is, looked up every 'breast enhancement product', and even tried one out. This herb, Kwao Kreu or 'PM' sounds the most promising out of anything I've heard so far. I'm sick of struggling with my confidence, and I'm sick of trying to establish a sense of feminity with myself. I understand that most women who come to this forum are, like me, looking for help--I was hoping I could find a nudge in the right direction. No matter how much research I've done most of the stuff I come across seems like a marketing scam.




Author Reply
Amanda
(no login) Re: Marketing Scam or the Real Thing? August 15 2009, 10:22 PM


Okay it's me again. I realized I wasn't clear in the type of information I was looking for.

-What kind of responses have you gotten from talking to your GYN about phytoestrogen, Pm, or Kwao Kreu?

-If you've used any of these products, has it proved worth it?

-Any recommended methods or websites?

I would be satisfied with an A. I am a AA cup, and even those bras don't fit me.





cheryl
(no login) Re: Marketing Scam or the Real Thing? August 24 2009, 4:35 AM



If your flat as a board and your attention span has to be greater than a few hours. If any product will work for you it will take a long , long time. If your wining at 2 months yor will not make it to 6 or 12 or more. That is your reality.

best

cheryl





Mel C
(Login mcovert) Re: Marketing Scam or the Real Thing? September 9 2009, 5:36 AM


First,most OB/Gyn docs will look at you like you're nutso if you even mention NBE......remeber that they have buddies that are cosmetic surgeons.They (most) will say there is no way that you will increase bust unless you get implants.

NBE does not work for everybody,BUT if you have seen the pics page,you will know it has worked/does work for many.

You have to have a positive,can-do attitude,and,uh-oh......patience.It is baby steps.No herb has been proven,but neither have many medicines docs prescribe either.Just because they are regulated by the government------you think that makes them proven?

Plus,with herbs,they have been around for centuries.

PM alone may work for you.....it may not alone.You may have to combine it with other herbs.....just research and be careful.You know your body better than anyone.

Find the right herbs for you(usually NOT found first shot)
Massage
Apply Heat
Positive Affirmations
Stuborness

Dream It,Believe It,Achieve It!





JEN
(no login) Re: Marketing Scam or the Real Thing? September 10 2009, 2:23 PM


YES DR MEL C..................THE RIGHT HERBS ...NOW JUST WHAT WOULD THEY BE?

The MD'S don't know this stuff that's why they laugh at you.

The ob gyn thinks your nutso because he has alot of education. You do not.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 20 2007 at 11:27 PM jellyboobs (Login jellyboobs)
EVE MEMBERS
HI EVERY ONE !!! well Im having a few scary problems with taking st herb pm !!!! now dont all justt panic and drop it if your taking it but read this info carefully and think about yourself and your symptoms ok ?????? first I will be 50 years old in sept this year 2nd I have grown 3 cup sizes on various methods of nbe over the past year 3rd I am in menopause !!! ok so I took the first month of st herb 2 in morning and 2 at night !!! then went down to one instead and continued for the month as I understood that if you dont have a period you can do that. then I stopped 2 weeks and got a light period !! fantastic I thought. I waited 2 weeks and started again but this time its different (ive been using the soap the whole time even on the 2 week break which in my case maybe was wrong )now I started to feel strange sensationg behind my right knee and my right elbow and the pulse area side of my neck which was very obvious to me ! I wondered if it was a mental thing having read shells thread on the pm forum about blood clots !!! so I kept taking the subtle pain in my leg became undeniably more obvious. and its a feeling Ive never felt before so I have currently stopped taking the internal pm for now !!!! I dont know that its the pm thats done this !! or maybe the pm plus the soap thus ove5rload of pm but I do know that the power of the pm is very different to taking all those other herbs I was used to so I dont want to mess with my health !!!!! I do feel a bit scared as Ive still got those funny feelings !! I will ask for a blood test this week and let you know the result (hopefully its something else ) I didnt want to write aboyut this to give you a false alarm but I feel it my duty to alert my fellow nbe ers !!!! that why you havent heard from me for a while !!!! I am annoyed as my boobs are growing on the PM< !!!!! I am also stopping the soap temporarily to clear my system but dont think the soap is dangerous !!! any suggestions would be warmly welcomed from me love your friend jellyDeeee....




Anonymous
(no login)
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 20 2007, 11:42 PM

i'm taking individual herbs and high doses of them. I've had similar pains, also behind my right knee and in my right arm. They were a pain and pulsing at the same time, then my arm tingled all the way down to my little finger, all down the ulna nerve. I'd read about blood clots and was wondering if i may be causing that, but cos of where it was in my arm, i thought it was more a nerve thing. It's not constant with me, happened maybe twice in the past 5 days




faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 20 2007, 11:48 PM

(((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS 4 JELLY)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

What a nasty scare. Try and stay calm Jelly. I bet it is hard, but you really must try.

I'd suggest to stop all NBE tout suite! Your health is far more important than growing bigger boobs.......and go see a doc, pronto!!

Have just been doing some rooting around and there is a LOT of info regarding thrombosis/phytoestrogens. I don't want to alarm you, and don't look if you don't want to, but there is some info here -

http://pmj.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/81/954/266.pdf

Your symptoms may well be totally unrelated. Keep us posted hey!

Healthy healing wishes!!

Love

=^_^= x



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 21 2007, 12:17 AM

It does kind of sound like a blood cloth and they can cause damage to the tissue arround the place cause the tissue doesn't get oxygen and nurtitients, Jelly I'd say go see a doc.



lassysam
(Login lassysam)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 21 2007, 12:42 AM

Thank you Jelly for posting this. I will definately keep this in mind for myself AND
PLEASE do know that my prayers and good thoughts go out to you. I hope you have this checked out by a doctor and I also hope you get good news and it is nothing serious. Being well and feeling healthy are most important. You are a sweet dear lady and we all want the best for you.
{}------HUG------{}



Laura
(no login)
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 21 2007, 10:31 AM

Hello Jelly,

Don't know much about St herbs PM but just want to wish you goos luck at the docotr's. please let us know your result.
I'm thinking of you.
Laura
x



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 21 2007, 1:30 PM

Hey, I think cayenne might work to prevent blood cloths, cause it's a vasodilatator and the most known hearb that han an allround beneficial effect on cardiovascular system.



gingerD
(Login gingerD)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 21 2007, 2:18 PM

Hey Jelly, gosh im sorry to here this, it is quite worrying.Lets hope it is just a false alarm but please do keep us posted
one thing you could do is take 1/2 an asprin a couple of times in the week, as they thin the blood
Iv been doing abit of reserch as to natural things that can help thin the blood etc and iv found this that could help u :
http://www.caringmedical.com/media/artic...cle_id=445
Read the whole thing but heres a few clippings:

What foods should we all include in our diets to promote thin blood?
Fresh Produce:
Avocados, Cabbage, Broccoli, Brussels sprouts, Cauliflower, Onions, Garlic, Kelp, Kale
Fats and Fish:
Flax Seed Oil, Fish Oils, Walnut Oil
Cold Water Ocean Fish:
Salmon, Bluefish, Arctic char, Mackerel, Swordfish. These rate the highest in omega-3 fatty acids.
avoid these types of foods:
1. Packaged products with a label that lists "partially hydrogenated oil.” This means read the labels of your crackers, breads, cookies, and other snack items.
2. Ice creams and frozen desserts
3. Mayonnaise
4. Deli foods, especially those with mayonnaise.
5. Margarine. Margarine is hydrogenated oil and also contains a number of chemical preservatives, dyes, and other artificial substances.
6. Vegetable oils such as corn oil, safflower oil, and "vegetable oil."
7. Fried foods. This includes those chicken strips, fried fish fillets, and French fries. It also includes fried vegetables like zucchini and cauliflower. Learn to enjoy foods fresh and raw, steamed, broiled, or baked.
8. FAST FOOD!


Big boobie hugs GD



jellyboobs
(Login jellyboobs)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 22 2007, 12:44 AM

dear girls !!!! thankyou so much for all your support and care and advice !~~~~!!! moon Im on that cayenne pepper !!!!! to all the other girls thankyou so much for yopur input I really appreciate it !! moon I was dreading your response to confirm that but I was really hoping youd answer something !!!!! so I truly thankyou ~~~~ Emmie !!! thankyou so much for the time you took to write up that info and I will look into that web page when I come back tonight. so lastnibht I blew it cause I ate a large macdonalds chips and a potato cake from the train station at about 12,00 after visiting my daughters first rented apartment !!!! and then she took me to karaoke (shes a fantastic singer !!!) I didnt feel very well but didnt have the heart to cancell as she was so excited that I was coming ! OK so todays the day Im going to the doctor love jelly....



deborah
(Login forme2know)
Too Jelly and her Health scare...PM related????
March 22 2007, 3:26 AM

Dear Jelly, I am so sorry to hear you are having these troubles. I think that this episode is a good example of what I have been trying to say about the PM use. Pueraria mirifica, and the Miroestrol are very potent compounds and need to be regarded much like a "medicinal" herb.

I have been getting many questions about PM use and the confusion about it is quite predominant. I think any time you have a gut level feeling that too much of a good thing has been had, then you best cool it for a bit.

This is exactly why I have been outspoken about the Pueraria UK Extreme 500mg capsules. I know everyone thought I was probably just trying to drive buisness my way, but that is not the case.

PM must be taken with caution and care. It will mess with your periods if taken in too high a dose or irregularly. The PM tablets are to be considered "different" than the topicals...creams, serums, spray, gel, soap etc. The concentration of miroestrol with the topicals is much more local than systemic.

I think if anyone has any kind of "pre-existing health problems" they should monitor themselves and probably use ORAL PM with a doctors oversight. For those without any major health issues, it is important to remember....bigger is not always better, and less is more, sometimes.

In my conversations with the scientist that imports the extract for the topicals (soap) I have learned that PM and the miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol are much more potent than ANY of the other breast enhancing herbals on the market. Therefore, prudence is warranted when using it. This is why I warn the women (and men) that are going to try it NOT to mix it with other phytoestrogenic herbs.

I would also recommend that if any of you have any fears at all about using it, try sticking with the topicals first. They are really very effective and do not have the systemic effects of taking an oral compound.

The "desired" effects can be quite marked with using just the topicals. The serums, creams, sprays, and especially the soap are really very safe. The only real complication I can think of, would be if someone were to develop an alergic skin reaction, which is possible with any substance.

Your experience, Jelly, could be what is called a "negative placebo" (from fear about Shell's experience. Or it could be something more serious...so do follow up with the doctor.

Be warned, all, that you may get conflicting information from EVEN doctors about this whole miroestrol business and do not be surprised if the doctor you ask doesn't know much about it. Unless they have been following the research that is going on in other countries, they will lump PM and miroestrol into a group with all "estrogens" and make FALSE assumptions. There is not only wide spread misinformation about PM, there is actually predjudice (sp?) because it is an estrogenic compound.

I have heard, even very knowledgeable doctors say that all estrogens are dangerous...including the plant derived ones. I have even heard a doctor say, on a reputable TV News show, that all phytoestrogens are carcinogenic (can cause cancer) and this is absolutely not the case with miroestrol. There is widespread ignorance about this compound. Especially in the western cultures.

Anything is dangerous in excess...even water. If you drink too much plain water you can hurt yourself. Thus my warning about the Pueraria Extreme product.

Ok this is plenty long enough now.

I hope you are alright and that the growth you have achieved will stay around!!

I do think the soap is perfectly safe however, and I am not just saying that for self promotion. That is one reason I think it such a great product...it is SAFE and it WORKS!!!

I hope this helps some of you making decisions.

Best,

Debs




Bindi
(no login)
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 22 2007, 9:16 PM

I did not know about the 15 day on, 15 day off rule. Why is that? I have been taking PM for about a week, and my period is not due for another week and a half. Should I stop taking it and wait until my period starts to start up again? Does everyone do it this way?

Also, an update on my side effects-- I cut down on the amount I was taking and the side effects backed off. So obviously it was too much. Thanks for the feedback.

Bindi



lassysam
(Login lassysam)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PM USERS !!!!!!!
March 23 2007, 3:03 AM

Yes dear, I do think you should stop taking the PM now and wait for your period to start. I think the 15 day on and 15 day off is very important. Do read Deborah's posts also and the posts in the Pueraria Mirifica thread.
Happy booby growing!



Deborah
(Login forme2know)
PM 14 Days ON and 14 Days OFF - Definitely
March 23 2007, 6:50 AM

YES, This is the way to take the St Herb brand and other "powder herb" PM Products. Start the PM capsules on the FIRST day of your period...the day your flow starts. Take it for 14 days straight. Then STOP. !!! Wait 14 days and you should get your period during this time. If you don't that is not a huge concern. Your body is adjusting. After, the 14 days OFF - RESTART the PM capsules again. Even if your period has not come. Continue taking the PM for the next 14 days. Then stop again... repeat. Using a topical, serum, cream, gel, spray, soap etc is advisable while taking the caps.

Now, MIRIFEM is DIFFERENT. Take 1 100mg cap everyday. No Break. Mirifem is an "EXTRACT" as opposed to the powder like St Herb.

Again, do not use other phytoestrogenic herbs with the PM. IT will only weaken the effect of the PM. Other herbs that are not phytoestrogens can be used but really, keep it simple. That way if there is any negative reaction you will know what to attribute it to.

Keep it simple, more is not better. Take the PM responsibly and follow the directions. Taking more will NOT make you grow any bigger or better. I can not stress this enough. Taking the break is important for PRE-Menopausal women.

Menopausal or Post- menopausal? Take lower dose...1 or 2 caps daily - no break. I use 1 capsule only and have good results combining it with topicals...soap, serum.

Best as always.

Debs

Deborah