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Hello everyone,

So Im feeling conflicted, very very pessimistic. I have pretty underdeveloped breasts (and they look mildly tubular - they are very conical/sloped.) I’m 21 and started NBE for a few months last year, which took me from completely flat chested to having a slight bit of plump. My old routine was just taking fenugreek and SP with pumpkin seed/olive oil massages, I stopped because I don’t feel like I grew but rather my breasts just appear fuller. 

So this year, I started again - this time doing daily massages (3x a day) with an olive oil, ground flaxseed, ground fenugreek & red clover mixture, 

Taking a mix of these herbs: fenugreek, maca, dong Quai, fennel, saw palmetto,

And getting as much phytoestrogens in my meals as I can while increasing my fat/protein intake.

And all the while I can’t really notice significant growth. Im still around a 34A, have been doing this since May, and at this point it’s super discouraging. I want to invest in a Noogleberry but part of me feels like it won’t help and I’m honestly tired of spending all this money with minimal results. Not to mention seeing all the other ladies my age with beautiful chests/bodies just feels like salt in the wound. I have broad shoulders and a “wide ribcage” so these tiny breasts don’t help the situation!

Does anyone have advice? Let me know if there’s something I should change!

Thank you!
I know it can be a lot of money, but buy a noogleberry or Bosom Beauty http://www.gismostore.com/rechargeable-b...m-170.html

Bosom Beauty is more expensive but has an electric pump.

Nothing works for underdeveloped breast, don’t waste your money.

Check those who have been successful from A cup in the forums in the past.  Usually it involves good nutrition.  I have some foods in my sig link, or at minimum make the majority of your diet whole seeds/grains/beans/nuts and strongly colored veggies.  Protein and maybe fat depending on the source is going a bit in the opposite direction.  You need some but only a little and it can get in the way of what you really need.

Since you already grew a little from fenugreek you may want to try something stronger such as 1200 to 2400 mg 50% saponin extract or soaking 1-3 tbsp. whole seeds for 4 hours, drain, rinse, snack.  Gradually increase from 1200 mg or 1 tbsp. If it gives you no issues.

Also, most take 3-4 months to gain their first size even if not A cup so be patient.  Growing from A cup might take several months after eating the right foods first.

Besides that don’t give yourself a hormone imbalance with too much pueraria mirifica (if any) without progesterone cream (if any) or vis versa.  Ditto with combination BC (which is mostly estrogen) or all progestin BC (synthetic progesterone).  Unless a hormone test confirms you have too much of the other one.  An imbalance can prevent all growth, even stopping other herbs from working or rarely even cause shrinkage.  Best to use a low amount if any and balance with the other until you confirm there is growth from other more reliable ways.  Only after that experiment with more of these if you want.  Nothing you listed falls into this category but it’s a common mistake so I thought I’d mention it.

Dear surferjoe,

I followed religiously your nutrition suggestion (except for saponin extract because i can’t find it here)

I also take everyday spirulin powder, but despite i‘ m not underweight, my cup size doesen’t increase.

I’m not sure what’s wrong with me.

(16-10-2022, 01:47 PM)Cely Wrote: [ -> ]

Dear surferjoe,

I followed religiously your nutrition suggestion (except for saponin extract because i can’t find it here)

I also take everyday spirulin powder, but despite i‘ m not underweight, my cup size doesen’t increase.

I’m not sure what’s wrong with me.

Cool, my thread alerts seem to be working again.  Not sure if I was forgetting to subscribe before or if it was a bug.  Ok let me see what I can do.

You had a hormone test and E/P was normal?  I assume both E and P were in the middle of the range and not low too?  Was T ok?  What day in your cycle was the test taken on?

You grew from BO before but shrank back down?  Has BO or PM given any side effects when you tried them before?

Are you on all the foods I mention daily including nuts (or alternate veggies), rice bran, fish oil, vitamin D, kelp, and eggs?  For how many months so far?

What is your height and weight?  Bust and underbust measurements before and after implants?  Are you on any kind of birth control?

Were you able to find progesterone cream in your country?  Since your hormones are probably balanced have you tried pueraria mirifica and progesterone cream at the same time yet?

I have a few more questions but let’s start with that and go from there.  And maybe create a new thread since it’s a bit of a tangent, though it might help nu.nu too.

Hi surfer, thank you for your answer,

I did my hormones checked, just let me search my thread, it was everything in the normal range.

I took PM (cycling, different brands) and didn’t grow but no side effects (just an increase Of my acne) for 3 months a lot of years ago (biovea pm) and for 7 months last year(i followed chiyomilk program, so, japanese PM and other supplements)


BO, i took swanson BO for 5/6 months with pituitary and kelp. No growth and no side effects (just 4lbs of weight gain)


I’m 5.2” height and my weight is 100 lbs

Caucasian race


My measurmens was 70 cm (27,55 inch) underbust

And 77 cm (30,3 inch) bust


Never used PC because i read some threads of people Who took PC alone and shrunk.


My diet is (since 5 years) based on rice, chicken, red meat, eggs (at least 2-3 eggs everyday), whey proteins, soya milk, green yogurt, dairy, salmon (at least 2 times a week)

I snack everyday with almonds, pecan nuts, peanuts, peanut butter and goji berries.

At night i drink soya milk with spirulin powder.

I also eat a lot of vegetables

Sometimes apples with cinnamon powder

Sometimes hot peppers in soups.

No refined sugars, no fast food, no alchol.

(19-10-2022, 03:39 PM)Cely Wrote: [ -> ]

Hi surfer, thank you for your answer,

I did my hormones checked, just let me search my thread, it was everything in the normal range.

I took PM (cycling, different brands) and didn’t grow but no side effects (just an increase Of my acne) for 3 months a lot of years ago (biovea pm) and for 7 months last year(i followed chiyomilk program, so, japanese PM and other supplements)


BO, i took swanson BO for 5/6 months with pituitary and kelp. No growth and no side effects (just 4lbs of weight gain)


I’m 5.2” height and my weight is 100 lbs

Caucasian race


My measurmens was 70 cm (27,55 inch) underbust

And 77 cm (30,3 inch) bust


Never used PC because i read some threads of people Who took PC alone and shrunk.


My diet is (since 5 years) based on rice, chicken, red meat, eggs (at least 2-3 eggs everyday), whey proteins, soya milk, green yogurt, dairy, salmon (at least 2 times a week)

I snack everyday with almonds, pecan nuts, peanuts, peanut butter and goji berries.

At night i drink soya milk with spirulin powder.

I also eat a lot of vegetables

Sometimes apples with cinnamon powder

Sometimes hot peppers in soups.

No refined sugars, no fast food, no alchol.


I really need to search the forums better so I can get a list of good PM.  I haven’t had the free time and I think I need better search terms.  I’d hope Japanese PM is good, maybe someone can chime in.

I found your hormone test.  Estrogen normal. progesterone was a little low but in range, testosterone a little high.  LH and FSH were really low but barely in range.  Makes me wonder if prolactin is high but it wasn’t on the test.  Or excessive protein.

You’re a little underweight, about 1-2 lbs out of range.

Are those measurements before or after implants?  Looks likhe 28, but it’s something and may make it easier to grow.

Some taking PM alone shrank, especially the pear shaped.  It depends on hormone balance.  Growth takes both E and P in balance.  Though you might need both since you’re not that imbalanced.

Is the rice white or brown?

I think after the last two questions here I can put together a program and explanation.  I already started but they would be helpful to know.

Hi Joe, i’m not underweight but years before i started diet and working out, because i was very pear shaped and still AA cup. My weight in kilos is 47,  (I lost about 10 kilos)

My protein intake is about1/1,5 for each kilo, not too low but not too much.

My measurements are without implants.

I just eat brown rice (whole rice) or black rice. No White rice at all.

Thank you

(21-10-2022, 06:02 AM)Cely Wrote: [ -> ]

Hi Joe, i’m not underweight but years before i started diet and working out, because i was very pear shaped and still AA cup. My weight in kilos is 47,  (I lost about 10 kilos)

My protein intake is about1/1,5 for each kilo, not too low but not too much.

My measurements are without implants.

I just eat brown rice (whole rice) or black rice. No White rice at all.

Thank you



Probably it’s a combination of progesterone being a little low, testosterone a little high, low LH, weight low, nutrients a little low (tons of seeds and veggies are needed) and protein a little high.  Nothing too major except maybe weight, and it all adds up.  On the bright side you do have a little tissue to start with in spite of all this, and PM didn’t give side effects last time you tried it.  That might help your growth get moving sooner especially after weight is addressed.  47 kg isn’t truly underweight though, which is 46 kg.  Unless you have a bit of muscle.

It’s not that important but if you had your bust measurements before the weight loss it would be helpful.  Even if your hormones put more in your butt than your chest, anything more in the chest would be a positive sign that there aren’t a lot of obstacles and that more growth is possible.  What you have right now even with the minor issues above is already somewhat of a positive sign.

I think:
  • See foods in my signature link
  • So much protein is probably shrinking your boobs and isn’t leaving as much room for growth and other nutrients.  Large amounts of protein can reduce estrogen and progesterone and shrink boobs regardless of nutrients too.  Both in studies and countless anecdotal stories.  And they didn’t always go extreme, just very high.  A little is good but with whole foods it’s almost impossible to not get enough.  If you do bulky muscle building workouts and not just cardio and toning you can have a little more protein as long as there is room for the suggested foods.  Keep in mind even grains, vegetables and fruit have protein and it all adds up.  Drop whey protein for sure and reduce dairy including yogurt to 1 serving (most yogurt is fake, excess calcium reduces your vitamin D and body calcium levels in studies).  Maybe drop red meat and chicken, maybe reduce eggs to 1-2, depending on workout muscle goals.  Brown rice and salmon are great.  120g of meat and eggs is enough, and an egg is 60g.  A little more if increasing muscle bulk and not just toning.
  • Almonds are great, other nuts good, fresh berries are great but dried are worthless (including so called “super” foods), spirulina is great, veggies are great.  Most fruits besides berries and including apples are low in nutrition.  Maybe apples had good marketing?  Citrus and bananas are ok.  The food list in my signature should cover your minimum needs but a little more of what is there or more seeds and vegetables are nice and certainly don’t hurt.  Veggies alone without seeds is pretty difficult because often you’d need around 0.5-1 kg a day if they are not on my signature list.  3/4 lb of the ones in my signature list is 350g btw.
  • Shoot for a weight of 52 kg or at least 50 kg.  50-55 kg is supposed to be the ideal for your height and up to 61 is ok.  If you have any muscle then shoot for more than 50-55.  A little bit of belly is normal but if you don’t like the effect on your stomach you can try a waist trainer, or a lot of ab workouts may help tone too.  Nbe herbs may lead to a little weight gain so it probably won’t be hard.
  • Supplements
    • 500 mg PM days 2-21
    • 150 mg PC days 8-28.  You’ve done 500 mg PM before without side effects so I think it will be fine.  If 20 days causes trouble then go back down to PM days 2-14 and PC 15-28.  Those with an actual hormone imbalance in PC forums do 200-300 mg PC or rarely 500-600 mg.  You aren’t that imbalanced so between P that is a little bit low and balancing out the PM, I think 150 mg PC is about right.  Like I said an imbalance on either side stalls growth or rarely causes shrinkage.  But raising both while working towards balance is the best for growth.  And there are lots of stories of major growth on all progestin BC (very strong synthetic progesterone) and PM.
    • 1-2 tbsp whole fenugreek seeds.  Soak in water at least 4 hours or overnight, drain, rinse, snack.  Start at 1 tbsp and after at least a week if there are no issues you can do 2.  Maybe 3 if it doesn’t upset your stomach and everything’s fine.  Since you can’t find a 50% saponin extract.  Fenugreek helps with estrogen, progesterone and many misc. hormones.  It helps you make more and/or increases sensitivity to them; it’s not clear but in studies it seems to work with whatever your body makes naturally.  It tends to promote hormonal balance, hormonal health and general health and rarely has side effects so it’s helpful for almost everyone.  Except the hypoglycemic since it also affects insulin (good for diabetics and most people in general).
    • 320 mg saw palmetto extract.  Minor nbe benefits, may reduce DHT a little (“bad” T), side effects very rare.  Plus may reduce acne, which other herbs might increase.  If you still have issues such as acne you can add 5-10g spearmint tea to reduce all T (regular and DHT), but otherwise I wouldn’t bother with spearmint.  Regular T does help with workouts and other things.
    • 1,500 mg freeze dried aloe capsules.  If it’s not fresh off the plant or freeze dried the active compounds quickly degrade and disappear.  If it’s not capsules watch out for cosmetic grade (external use only) or aloe with green laxative parts.  Stimulates collagen production and may imitate IGF-1 and HGH.  Many other huge benefits too.
    • 2,500 mg whole mucuna pruriens (not extract) or 500 mg 15% L-DOPA mucuna pruriens extract, or equivalent.  Don’t take 2,500 mg of a strong extract or it might be unfun for a few hours, though nothing serious.  Wouldn’t hurt just in case your prolactin is high, and if prolactin is too low it doesn’t impede growth much.  You can always drop it later after growing if you find you don’t need it.  This is a low amount too.
  • Hopefully you’ll get growth a lot sooner but be patient in case it takes as much as 8 months to get 2 cm.  I don’t think you have major obstacles so I’m hoping for something 2-4 months after reaching a weight of at least 50 kg.
If it looks like you might grow too much then you can reduce amounts as you get close to your goal size.  But for now I think the goal is only to figure out how you can grow at all, as long as there aren’t side effects.  Besides being unpleasant, side effects may indicate an issue that’s in the way of growth, so reduce herb amounts if so.  After more months on the food list you may be able to try raising the reduced herbs back up again.  Whatever the reason, if you need to reduce something then PM and PC should be reduced first.  Since PM is the most likely to cause side effects and PC should be balanced with it to grow.  For example to 0 mg PM and 50 mg PC. 

Let me know if you have any questions or if you have trouble finding anything and need an alternative.
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