Hi
I'm trying to work out what herbs I would like to try and what each one does, and I've found this explanation of anti-androgens, but don't understand it.
Anti-androgens block the production of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) from testosterone. Only muscle growth reacts to the androgen signal via testosterone directly. All other androgen effects are caused by DHT: male pattern baldness, high libido, facial and body hair, oily skin and acne, and the ability to cope with stress. Because the anterior pituitary gland keeps the total amount of sex steroids constant, people take an anti-androgen, to decrease DHT, so there is more room for estrogens. Trying to decrease testosterone itself is counter-productive, because estrogens are made from testosterone.
Please, is anyone able to simplify it, and explain it a different way. And what is an androgen and anti-androgen?
Thank you
Well. That explanation is actually incorrect... But I can boil it down even further and give the absolute simplest explanation: Androgens are a class of steroidal hormones found in animals and certain plants that cause masculinizing effects. Anti-androgens are any chemicals or combinations of chemicals that block the effects or production of these hormones.
For a slightly more involved explanation....
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The human androgens are DHEAS, androsteniodone, testosterone, and dihydrotestosterone. Additionally, it is possible to get dietary sources of additional plant and animal androgens that can bind to androgen receptors and lead to many and even sometimes worse androgenic effects.
There are in fact several classes of anti-androgens, each acting at different points in the hormonal synthesis pathway. There are also classes of anti-androgens that block the various classes of androgen receptors, but that's a whole nother beast to talk about.
Some block the branching from the progesterones and cortisols, effectively blocking ALL androgens AND estrogens which start life as androgens. These often also lead to PHA and/or progesterone toxicity.
Others block the reduction of androsteniodone to testosterone. These effectively block off just the masculinizing androgens, and are much safer. Your biggest concern here is that many also effect the reduction of Estrone to Estradiol. Your second biggest concern is cutting off too much T leaving yourself without enough T to prevent blood and bone related problems from too much estrogen without T to balance it.
The safest class of anti-androgens are the ones that block the reduction of testosterone to it's much more powerful brother, dihydrotestosterone.
Additionally, there is a class of chemicals that are occasionally called anti-androgens which are in fact pro-aromatase. What these do is accelerate the reduction of the androgens into the estrogens.
Finally, as mentioned above, there are chemicals and combinations of chemicals that interfere with the binding of the androgens to various receptors. This however brings in a level of complexity best left unexplored here.
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What all this boils down to is, you most generally will not need ANY anti-androgens. If you do, low doses of saw palmetto or chinese skullcap or white peony (this is pro-aromatase, not actually anti-androgen per se) should be sufficient.
Unless you are a biologic male, or a PCOS sufferer, you generally will only have slightly heightened T if at all.
abidrew,
what are your thoughts on spearmint tea as anti-androgen?
if i accidentally raised my estrogen level too high, do I balance it out with progesterone or testosterone?
thank you for the in depth explanation.
nice thread. I'm about to ask you guys about anti-androgen. I think cornsilk has an anti-androgen properties. I drank cornsilk tea a lot today, and get headache. does that means, it raised my estrogen level?
it's day 11 of my cycle. my estrogen should be going down for ovulation if nothing's wrong with my hormone.
(24-09-2012, 02:03 AM)AbiDrew85 Wrote: [ -> ]Well. That explanation is actually incorrect...
Wow, I got this explanation from a thread done by Isabelle.
Thank you for your detailed explanation.
(25-09-2012, 03:50 PM)lled34aa Wrote: [ -> ]abidrew,
what are your thoughts on spearmint tea as anti-androgen?
if i accidentally raised my estrogen level too high, do I balance it out with progesterone or testosterone?
thank you for the in depth explanation.
Spearmint tea belongs to the class that blocks the reduction of androsteniodone to testosterone and seemingly does not effect the estrone to estradiol pathway. It's a good choice if you aren't allergic to the mint family. Unfortunately, I am, so I can't.
Generally if your estrogen is too high you balance it by raising progesterone. The best way for that is a progesterone cream. The only way to want to raise your testosterone is if it's below the minimum for bone and muscle maintenance. You'll know easily if your T is too low if your muscles are constantly sore even when not being used at all.
And your welcome!
(25-09-2012, 04:07 PM)aveh Wrote: [ -> ]nice thread. I'm about to ask you guys about anti-androgen. I think cornsilk has an anti-androgen properties. I drank cornsilk tea a lot today, and get headache. does that means, it raised my estrogen level?
it's day 11 of my cycle. my estrogen should be going down for ovulation if nothing's wrong with my hormone.
I honestly don't know anything about cornsilk. I've seen in mentioned on the forums elsewhere for breast growth as well... My guess is it might be another pro-aromatase herb. Before assuming you went estrogen dominant though, I think it'd be better to consider the possibility of hypoglycemia. Many pro-aromatase chemicals are also well documented as causing a massive release of insulin, causing rapid hypoglycemic reactions.
(25-09-2012, 09:49 PM)djt-d Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, I got this explanation from a thread done by Isabelle.
Thank you for your detailed explanation.
Some of Isabelle's information is very helpful... Some of it is kinda confusing... And every now and then, she gets something totally wrong. It's okay though, anti-hormones are a complex science on their own...
Hey AbiDrew85,
You seem to know a lot about these things, maybe you could help me
Do you know anything about the effect of Nigella Sativa or black cumin oil on hormones ? Especially oestrogen-testerone wise ? Does it have any effect on aromatase ? I am looking for aromatase promoting herbs. Most herbs seem to do the opposite. I am taking black cumin seeds for the anti-inflammatories benefits and anti-allergic effects but want to know to be sure it does not inhibit aromatase;
I don't know if I have high testosterone but i do have acne (although mild), some hairs on my shin (eww) and my hair gets oily very fast.
I am going to start taking Scutellaria laterifolia if I can find it. I don't know if it is the same as chinese skullcap but it is all I can find in my country.
What about common sage ? Any information on this ? They say it is oestrogenic. However, it increases my libido I think and I want to keep my libido low (I don't have a partner so I don't have sex and if my libido is low I find it easier to be single furthermore I am afraid that anything that increases my libido also increases my male hormones)
Any ideas on these herbs.
Thank you all and have a very nice day.