[EvaKo87]

With regards to coffee, I would say coffee is a known to contain phytoestrogen and because PM also contains phytoestrogens they will automatically compete with the estrogen receptors (and other). So taking PM for breakfast together with coffee is a bad idea and it's better to give two hours between them which mean if you're having breakfast at 8 with coffee, take your PM @ 10 or the other way around.

[Pansy-Mae]

Sorry Eva, but although technically you are correct, in that coffee is indeed a weak phytoestrogen, the emphasis is on weak. So weak in fact that just about only cows milk, beer and water melon rank lower in a Canadian study of 121 common foodstuffs.(http://www.dietaryfiberfood.com/phytoestrogen.php)

Coffee is at least several times weaker than, for example, both red and white wine, raspberries, onions, cabbage, green beans, olive oil, hummus, multi-grain bread......
So if your aim is to get rid of coffee on the basis of its phytoestrogen content, then by applying the same logic to everything with a higher content, you are pretty much going to starve fairly quickly, because of course "we all know" that meat is loaded with synthetic hormones so we can't eat meat and we can't eat veggies!

I also have a problem with this idea of 'competing for estrogen receptors'. Again, I don't say that it doesn't happen, but not in the space of two hours - if it does happen that quickly then it is irrelevant anyway because two hours later the weaker ones will have gone off an been replaced by the magical stronger ones...and breast development takes months and years, not hours.

As Chrishoney has said, there are loads of myths surrounding NBE and as far as I can see, most of the "facts" are things that "everyone knows" but in fact you can never find anyone who can quote a source for that knowledge.

I hope this doesn't come over as though I'm having a go at you personally, because I'm not, I've repeated things parrot-fashion myself before realising what I was doing, but we all need to be careful what we say, and even more careful about believing what we read.

[KAYA]

With regards to coffee, I would say coffee is a known to contain phytoestrogen and because PM also contains phytoestrogens they will automatically compete with the estrogen receptors (and other). So taking PM for breakfast together with coffee is a bad idea and it's better to give two hours between them which mean if you're having breakfast at 8 with coffee, take your PM @ 10 or the other way around.

Thank you!

This is all i have been trying to say, then someone came along and demanded answers from me lol !! Did you read how many answers one person wanted from me!!!? Thanx EvaKo87 your a star

HuGZzz
KAYA

[KAYA]

Lets just say, Some like to drink coffee and some don't. It is common sense about the times you take them, and i agree 100% with EvaKo87 about the time gap. I give an hour or two between times. Regarding other phytoestrogens, i don't know that's another subject.

HuGZzz
KAYA

[soonenough]

I wonder if green tea would be categorized with coffee. I drink about 8-12 cups of sencha green tea daily. If what Eva says is true, I'm going to cut down and just drink plain hot water, maybe add a squeeze of lemon to give it flavor. What do you guys think? So far, I have grown since starting NBE 12/9/10 without dropping my green tea drink. I wonder though if growth would have been faster if I just drink straight hot water. I can't drink cold, even lukewarm water, makes me cold right away.

Thanks. I'll drink green tea two hours after taking PM in the morning. I usually drink green right after.

[sfem]

If you have grown since starting NBE without making other dietary changes, then what you are doing is working. Don't give up things you enjoy just because someone random online says they think you should. Congratulations on your success so far and keep on growing!

[chrishoney]

Kaya,

I didn't want answers from you as I pretty much suspected that you would say what you did: "it's what someone told me", possibly a sales rep on the phone! I did/do want you and me and everyone else, to be accountable for the veracity of statements and advice we give out, as if they are incontrovertible fact.

Sfem,

Great link on the effects of caffeine and breast growth. That is exactly the kind of info I have been looking for, but have not found until now. Kudos! I spent a bit of time going through some of the references for that study, and other studies have shown caffeine has an inhibitory effect on the proliferation of mouse epithelial cells. What the hell does that mean?

Epithelial cells comprise the main part of glandular tissue. Proliferation refers to the cells actively dividing and increasing in number. If caffeine inhibits the cells from changing from a quiescent stage to actively dividing, that could mean less glandular tissue develops, and ultimately smaller breast buds and less growth in size. That's good science and a plausible theory in my book.

Ironically, all this time I have been pushing the caffeine is OK stance, I have been cutting back on my own consumption, even though I did experience growth while consuming fairly high amounts of coffee. So, while I may have the genetic makeup in which caffeine does not have an effect on breast volume, I have been cutting back for other reasons. Or, I might have had even more growth had I not been drinking so much coffee! We'll never know.

[soonenough]

You are so right, sfem. I tried to cut down on my green tea, and guess what, it made me so hungry that I almost ate a whole bag of cookies. I was like a zombie in the afternoon. I found an alternative; I'm reusing the tea leaves like 3-4 times now instead of replacing it after 2x use. That increased my liquid intake right there. Green tea is so soothing, that when I get stressed out or rattled there's nothing like a hot cup of green tea to calm me down and make everything seems doable and surmountable.

Thanks so much and much success in your growth too.

[sfem]

Regarding the effect on epithelial cells in mice, I would guess at this stage it probably just means it sucks to be a mouse in a lab. I'm not sure the effects translate into anything for humans. We'll just have to stay tuned for more...

As for coffee, tea, etc., my personal opinion is that it has other effects which I find unwelcome such as increased muscle tension and headaches for me. I do enjoy a cup of coffee though, so I'll continue to have it, although infrequently.

[KAYA]

Kaya,

I didn't want answers from you as I pretty much suspected that you would say what you did: "it's what someone told me", possibly a sales rep on the phone! I did/do want you and me and everyone else, to be accountable for the veracity of statements and advice we give out, as if they are incontrovertible

Chrishoney,

Why is it you love to go so out your way to make a point? That's a very masculine quality you have. You enjoy using big long words to try and intimidate? Strange. lol

Did you ever swallow a dictionary by any chance?

Big HuGZzz
KAYA