[NaturalLady31]

I've been taking saw palmetto for about a month and a half or maybe two months.. Not sure if I remember the exact date I started taking it. Anyway, I am using a liquid extract form and I'm taking about 200-300 mg a day. My question is, is that a sufficient dose to possibly achieve breast enlargement results or is it too low? I do have symptoms of excess androgens such as jaw line and upper back break outs, but the low dose of SP has already helped a lot with that. I just don't know if the dose I'm using is enough to help with my NBE goals.

Any answers on this would be appreciated! Thanks!

[surferjoe2007]

I've been taking saw palmetto for about a month and a half or maybe two months.. Not sure if I remember the exact date I started taking it. Anyway, I am using a liquid extract form and I'm taking about 200-300 mg a day. My question is, is that a sufficient dose to possibly achieve breast enlargement results or is it too low? I do have symptoms of excess androgens such as jaw line and upper back break outs, but the low dose of SP has already helped a lot with that. I just don't know if the dose I'm using is enough to help with my NBE goals.

Any answers on this would be appreciated! Thanks!

The classic amount is 320 mg saw palmetto extract with 85-95% fatty acids. This is an oily extract. Whole saw palmetto is about 10% fatty acids so this translates to about 3,000 mg whole herb. This is the amount for men, but many NBE routines for women use a similar amount so it's probably about right. Or some use half as much. Plus it's for DHT testosterone - the kind that causes acne and so on - not all testosterone in general, so men don't necessarily have more DHT. I can't tell whether or not your extract is right since it depends on the fatty acid content; read the label. If it's a water extract then it's probably much less, maybe 25% fatty acids or less. I mean 90% oil should look like oil. If it's an oil liquid then 85-95% fatty acids is pretty common and it's probably the same.

If you want to reduce all testosterone in general and not only DHT then studies on women use 10g dried spearmint a day, made into 2 cups of tea. About 2 tsp dried spearmint per cup or 4 typical tea bags each. Your general T could be high more because of your jaw line than your breakouts, which is why I'm bringing this up. But a hormone test is the only way to be sure.

[NaturalLady31]

I've been taking saw palmetto for about a month and a half or maybe two months.. Not sure if I remember the exact date I started taking it. Anyway, I am using a liquid extract form and I'm taking about 200-300 mg a day. My question is, is that a sufficient dose to possibly achieve breast enlargement results or is it too low? I do have symptoms of excess androgens such as jaw line and upper back break outs, but the low dose of SP has already helped a lot with that. I just don't know if the dose I'm using is enough to help with my NBE goals.

Any answers on this would be appreciated! Thanks!

The classic amount is 320 mg saw palmetto extract with 85-95% fatty acids. This is an oily extract. Whole saw palmetto is about 10% fatty acids so this translates to about 3,000 mg whole herb. This is the amount for men, but many NBE routines for women use a similar amount so it's probably about right. Or some use half as much. Plus it's for DHT testosterone - the kind that causes acne and so on - not all testosterone in general, so men don't necessarily have more DHT. I can't tell whether or not your extract is right since it depends on the fatty acid content; read the label. If it's a water extract then it's probably much less, maybe 25% fatty acids or less. I mean 90% oil should look like oil. If it's an oil liquid then 85-95% fatty acids is pretty common and it's probably the same.

If you want to reduce all testosterone in general and not only DHT then studies on women use 10g dried spearmint a day, made into 2 cups of tea. About 2 tsp dried spearmint per cup or 4 typical tea bags each. Your general T could be high more because of your jaw line than your breakouts, which is why I'm bringing this up. But a hormone test is the only way to be sure.

Thanks for the info, Surferjoe. I checked my extract and it's water based. Doesn't say anything on there about fatty acid content. I found this one http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Saw...ftgels/294 in softgel form that I'll probably switch to when I run out of the extract.

I generally only get mild jaw line breakouts around that time of the month but I've not had even one blemish on my face since I started the SP, knock on wood. My upper back is also much improved. So I'm not sure if the addition of spearmint is warranted for me or not.. ?

Since I'm taking several other supplements for gut healing and thyroid issues, I'm trying to streamline my NBE program to be as basic yet effective as possible. I wonder if I might be estrogen dominant but I've always read that E-dominant ladies had high fat storage in the hip area, which I don't. I know that testing is the best way to be sure about this. I'm debating between just getting an estrogen/progesterone saliva test, or a full-cycle saliva test which will measure all hormones as they fluctuate throughout the month.

Anyway, if I indeed found out that I'm in an estrogen dominant state, what herbs/doses would you recommend to use for an effective NBE routine in that instance?

Thanks so much again for your time.
Natural Lady

[NaturalLady31]

Surferjoe,

Just read the article at the bottom of your posts - A good NBE program: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=23076 - which gives a lot of information.

I have a few other quick questions about that. You stated the importance of herbs containing steroidal saponins for NBE (i.e., increasing hormone sensitivity). Makes good sense. But I don't seem to do very well with fenugreek because it seems to lower my blood sugar. Do all steroidal saponins such as fenugreek, goat's rue, or shatavari potentially affect insulin response or cause hypoglycemic symptoms? I hope not. If so, can you suggest an alternative herb/supplement for the purpose of hormone sensitivity?

Sorry to bother you with more questions!
Natural Lady

[surferjoe2007]

Surferjoe,

Just read the article at the bottom of your posts - A good NBE program: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=23076 - which gives a lot of information.

I have a few other quick questions about that. You stated the importance of herbs containing steroidal saponins for NBE (i.e., increasing hormone sensitivity). Makes good sense. But I don't seem to do very well with fenugreek because it seems to lower my blood sugar. Do all steroidal saponins such as fenugreek, goat's rue, or shatavari potentially affect insulin response or cause hypoglycemic symptoms? I hope not. If so, can you suggest an alternative herb/supplement for the purpose of hormone sensitivity?

Sorry to bother you with more questions!
Natural Lady

Yes all saponins are likely to lower blood sugar. It would be better to avoid them altogether. Some can tolerate 1,000-1,500 mg temporarily and then it lowers their blood sugar again, but at that amount it has almost no benefit. So better to use zero. I don't know other herbs for hormone sensitivity since they tend to increase sensitivity to all hormones in general including insulin.

I would suggest looking into the nutritional recommendations in that thread to help your hypoglycemia. Once it is a lot better then you might try those herbs. You can still manage without them. With any health issues like hypoglycemia and hormone imbalances it might be better to stick to non-herbal methods for the most part until the health problems get better. Do use saw palmetto and so on to balance out your hormones, but that's it. Try nutrition, massage, etc.

Yeah your water extract SP is probably weaker and require more for the same effect. The softgels you found look good. Oh by jaw line you meant jaw line breakouts. I thought you meant a pronounced jawline. Nevermind, breakouts in general is DHT. I don't know if your general testosterone is high or not; you would have to test and see. If you are estrogen dominant you can use vitex or progesterone cream. Vitex is weaker than PC but it's easy to overdo PC and it can raise your testosterone too. Vitex is slower but it's pretty mild and safe too. 500 mg vitex is plenty; more than that doesn't help more and you don't need an extract for vitex either. The more thorough the hormonal test the more sure you can be about what needs correcting. Like I said until your health improves I'd limit your herbal program mainly to correcting hormonal issues rather than trying to add any other hormonal herbs to your already stressed body.

[NaturalLady31]

Surferjoe,

Just read the article at the bottom of your posts - A good NBE program: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=23076 - which gives a lot of information.

I have a few other quick questions about that. You stated the importance of herbs containing steroidal saponins for NBE (i.e., increasing hormone sensitivity). Makes good sense. But I don't seem to do very well with fenugreek because it seems to lower my blood sugar. Do all steroidal saponins such as fenugreek, goat's rue, or shatavari potentially affect insulin response or cause hypoglycemic symptoms? I hope not. If so, can you suggest an alternative herb/supplement for the purpose of hormone sensitivity?

Sorry to bother you with more questions!
Natural Lady

Yes all saponins are likely to lower blood sugar. It would be better to avoid them altogether. Some can tolerate 1,000-1,500 mg temporarily and then it lowers their blood sugar again, but at that amount it has almost no benefit. So better to use zero. I don't know other herbs for hormone sensitivity since they tend to increase sensitivity to all hormones in general including insulin.

I would suggest looking into the nutritional recommendations in that thread to help your hypoglycemia. Once it is a lot better then you might try those herbs. You can still manage without them. With any health issues like hypoglycemia and hormone imbalances it might be better to stick to non-herbal methods for the most part until the health problems get better. Do use saw palmetto and so on to balance out your hormones, but that's it. Try nutrition, massage, etc.

Yeah your water extract SP is probably weaker and require more for the same effect. The softgels you found look good. Oh by jaw line you meant jaw line breakouts. I thought you meant a pronounced jawline. Nevermind, breakouts in general is DHT. I don't know if your general testosterone is high or not; you would have to test and see. If you are estrogen dominant you can use vitex or progesterone cream. Vitex is weaker than PC but it's easy to overdo PC and it can raise your testosterone too. Vitex is slower but it's pretty mild and safe too. 500 mg vitex is plenty; more than that doesn't help more and you don't need an extract for vitex either. The more thorough the hormonal test the more sure you can be about what needs correcting. Like I said until your health improves I'd limit your herbal program mainly to correcting hormonal issues rather than trying to add any other hormonal herbs to your already stressed body.

I know that the blood sugar fluctuations are related to my thyroid/digestive absorption issues, because I never had a problem with hypoglycemic symptoms until my thyroid got wonky.

Anyway, I've been doing massage twice a day consistently since March without much result, so that's why I was researching information on specific NBE herbs.. I also was looking into MSM since, from what I've been reading, it's also good for healing the digestive system. So in your opinion, you think I should quit focusing on NBE altogether?

I don't have severe symptoms that coincide with estrogen dominance, but I do suspect a shift going on in my progesterone level. I took vitex periodically a long time ago and don't remember having any negative effects from it, so I suppose that's worth trying if my testing reveals excess estrogen.

[surferjoe2007]

Most thyroid problems are from iodine deficiency. Would be something to check.

Yeah it sounds like your health issues are going to get in the way of NBE. Perhaps even non-hormonal methods if massage isn't working. I'd focus solely on balancing your hormones and good nutrition for now.

There are enzyme digestive supplements that can help with digestion until your own digestion gets better. Good nutrition should help but if you can't absorb the nutrition it's a bit of a catch 22.

[chelo123]

I've been taking saw palmetto for about a month and a half or maybe two months.. Not sure if I remember the exact date I started taking it. Anyway, I am using a liquid extract form and I'm taking about 200-300 mg a day. My question is, is that a sufficient dose to possibly achieve breast enlargement results or is it too low?  I do have symptoms of excess androgens such as jaw line and upper back break outs, but the low dose of SP has already helped a lot with that.  I just don't know if the dose I'm using is enough to help with my NBE goals.

Any answers on this would be appreciated! Thanks!

I say BEWARE of SP....My sex drive has PLUMMETTED, and my mood is HORRIBLE, I gained weight on my stomach, I have been treating my husband like garbage, being insecure, crying over everything, EXTREME STOMACH PAINS, hemmeroids. I did some research online and it can be really bad for some PEOPLE also my breasts decreased in size.....i was having more luck with maca, fenugreek and wild yam. I may take avery reduced dose of SP but I need a break from it