Natural Breast Enhancement Forums

Ok, I don't know too much about hormones and am often confused when reading threads on this site, so am putting this here to check I have got this right. so after some digging through the web I've found some information about some causes of high prolactin and it's relationship to other hormones and neurotransmitters

Estrogen upregulates prolactin so high estrogen could heighten prolactin

Dopamine downregulates prolactin so low dopamine could heighten prolactin. Low dopamine can occur with some forms of depression (often causing tiredness, low motivation, and low emotional responses)

High prolactin can decrease testosterone

I have suffered from depression in the past, but it was the "normal" form cause by low serotonin, not low dopamine.
The past couple of weeks I've found myself very tired, struggling to get up in the morning and feeling very low motivation to do things (eg search/apply for jobs, go out, or do things I would normally enjoy like knitting, video games etc)
I am wondering if my dopamine might be low.

It has previously been theorised by a few people on these forums that I have gone through an estrogen spike after coming off BC

If high estrogen + low dopamine = high prolactin, would this explain the last few weeks of changes in my breasts?

(26-04-2016, 01:41 PM)Katana Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, I don't know too much about hormones and am often confused when reading threads on this site, so am putting this here to check I have got this right. so after some digging through the web I've found some information about some causes of high prolactin and it's relationship to other hormones and neurotransmitters

Estrogen upregulates prolactin so high estrogen could heighten prolactin

Dopamine downregulates prolactin so low dopamine could heighten prolactin. Low dopamine can occur with some forms of depression (often causing tiredness, low motivation, and low emotional responses)

High prolactin can decrease testosterone

I have suffered from depression in the past, but it was the "normal" form cause by low serotonin, not low dopamine.
The past couple of weeks I've found myself very tired, struggling to get up in the morning and feeling very low motivation to do things (eg search/apply for jobs, go out, or do things I would normally enjoy like knitting, video games etc)
I am wondering if my dopamine might be low.

It has previously been theorised by a few people on these forums that I have gone through an estrogen spike after coming off BC

If high estrogen + low dopamine = high prolactin, would this explain the last few weeks of changes in my breasts?

Prolactin lowers dopamine

Serotonin lowers dopamine

Prolactin upregulates estrogen receptors

High estrogen downregulates estrogen receptors which is why women with estrogen dominance do not respond to estrogenic herbs

This is a lot to keep in mind, but all the hormones should be thought of as a whole as much as possible rather than in isolation. They all work together, some help raise some while others reduce some.

Decreasing testosterone is not inherently good, since testosterone is a precursor to estrogen, although the decrease in testosterone could be due to an increase in estrogen production

I am not sure if estrogen necessarily reduces dopamine, but might be an associated condition. If increased prolactin has temporarily resensitized your E receptors to estrogen activity, that might explain the changes.

You don't necessarily want to lower dopamine simply to raise prolactin since it can have a negative impact on the mood. That's the major side effect of nonselectively increasing prolactin without taking any precautions.

However, if you are dealing with low dopamine in any case, you could take vitamin D3. it should help resume dopamine production regardless of prolactin. It also helps the body utilize its own natural progesterone. a good daily range for vitamin D is 2000-4000 IU, but the latest research says 10,000 IU is best for most adults. It sounds like a crazy high amount but it's actually quite normal and I've taken it at these doses myself for a while. If I remember correctly, the RDI for vitamin D is only 400 IU to prevent rickets, ridiculously low.

From http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prolactin.html

Quote:The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. Vitamin D increases the release of dopamine.

You may also be dealing with estrogen dominance, most women are. I'm not personally too familiar with your program or what you feel your specific needs are at the moment so I'm just hitting on every point I remember

Making a serious effort to increase prolactin might be best during follicular phase when resensitizing estrogen receptors before progesterone goes back up would be a good idea. Progesterone suppresses prolactin and vice versa. It's my opinion that following the hormone cycle is optimum for growth since it aids the breasts in growing in its natural phases and allows the body to produce and respond to its own hormones at appropriate levels.

Depression also is related to thyroid health. The thyroid processes L-tyrosine and iodine to make thyroid hormone, which facilitates dopamine production and maintains the metabolism. In plenty of women, the thyroid is underactive (hypothyroid). A slow thyroid is not conducive to NBE I think.

It also appears that stress response inhibits the hormones and reduces dopamine. Reducing stress at the hormone level is really important.

Hope this helps!

(27-04-2016, 11:45 PM)anyover88 Wrote: [ -> ]

(26-04-2016, 01:41 PM)Katana Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, I don't know too much about hormones and am often confused when reading threads on this site, so am putting this here to check I have got this right. so after some digging through the web I've found some information about some causes of high prolactin and it's relationship to other hormones and neurotransmitters

Estrogen upregulates prolactin so high estrogen could heighten prolactin

Dopamine downregulates prolactin so low dopamine could heighten prolactin. Low dopamine can occur with some forms of depression (often causing tiredness, low motivation, and low emotional responses)

High prolactin can decrease testosterone

I have suffered from depression in the past, but it was the "normal" form cause by low serotonin, not low dopamine.
The past couple of weeks I've found myself very tired, struggling to get up in the morning and feeling very low motivation to do things (eg search/apply for jobs, go out, or do things I would normally enjoy like knitting, video games etc)
I am wondering if my dopamine might be low.

It has previously been theorised by a few people on these forums that I have gone through an estrogen spike after coming off BC

If high estrogen + low dopamine = high prolactin, would this explain the last few weeks of changes in my breasts?

Prolactin lowers dopamine

Serotonin lowers dopamine

Prolactin upregulates estrogen receptors

High estrogen downregulates estrogen receptors which is why women with estrogen dominance do not respond to estrogenic herbs

This is a lot to keep in mind, but all the hormones should be thought of as a whole as much as possible rather than in isolation. They all work together, some help raise some while others reduce some.

Decreasing testosterone is not inherently good, since testosterone is a precursor to estrogen, although the decrease in testosterone could be due to an increase in estrogen production

I am not sure if estrogen necessarily reduces dopamine, but might be an associated condition. If increased prolactin has temporarily resensitized your E receptors to estrogen activity, that might explain the changes.

You don't necessarily want to lower dopamine simply to raise prolactin since it can have a negative impact on the mood. That's the major side effect of nonselectively increasing prolactin without taking any precautions.

However, if you are dealing with low dopamine in any case, you could take vitamin D3. it should help resume dopamine production regardless of prolactin. It also helps the body utilize its own natural progesterone. a good daily range for vitamin D is 2000-4000 IU, but the latest research says 10,000 IU is best for most adults. It sounds like a crazy high amount but it's actually quite normal and I've taken it at these doses myself for a while. If I remember correctly, the RDI for vitamin D is only 400 IU to prevent rickets, ridiculously low.

From http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prolactin.html

Quote:The rate limiting step in dopamine synthesis is the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase. Insufficient levels of vitamin D inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase, resulting in a disturbance in the dopamine pathway. Vitamin D increases the release of dopamine.

You may also be dealing with estrogen dominance, most women are. I'm not personally too familiar with your program or what you feel your specific needs are at the moment so I'm just hitting on every point I remember

Making a serious effort to increase prolactin might be best during follicular phase when resensitizing estrogen receptors before progesterone goes back up would be a good idea. Progesterone suppresses prolactin and vice versa. It's my opinion that following the hormone cycle is optimum for growth since it aids the breasts in growing in its natural phases and allows the body to produce and respond to its own hormones at appropriate levels.

Depression also is related to thyroid health. The thyroid processes L-tyrosine and iodine to make thyroid hormone, which facilitates dopamine production and maintains the metabolism. In plenty of women, the thyroid is underactive (hypothyroid). A slow thyroid is not conducive to NBE I think.

It also appears that stress response inhibits the hormones and reduces dopamine. Reducing stress at the hormone level is really important.

Hope this helps!

I've mntioned on other sites re taking up to 5000IU of D3 and people have jumped up and down carrying on how dangerous that is... I've read up plenty myself on the issue and agree high doses are completely safe BUT I did read somewhere you shouldn't take high doses of D3 without vitamen K2. Do you know if this anyover?
For this reason I've onky been taking 2-3000iu until I get the k2 thing clarified.

Also same with iodine, the rdi JUST enough to stop us getting goitres let alone be of any health benefit

All of this in relation to my situation is hypothetical until I get my hormone test done.
I haven't tried to deliberately increase or decrease anything. And all this hormone stuff honestly confuses me (hence why I'm staying away from herbs)
I did get my implant removed today, even though it was expired it could have still been releasing progestogen.
I have to wait a month or so to see if things return to normal before I can take a hormone test according to the doctor.
I'm just trying to find out why I've had such fast results. I've had a few PMs asking and the answer is "I don't know why"

I'm trying really hard to teach myself about hormones and breast growth but am struggling. It all seems rather overwhelming

(28-04-2016, 12:18 AM)Katana Wrote: [ -> ]All of this in relation to my situation is hypothetical until I get my hormone test done.
I haven't tried to deliberately increase or decrease anything. And all this hormone stuff honestly confuses me (hence why I'm staying away from herbs)
I did get my implant removed today, even though it was expired it could have still been releasing progestogen.
I have to wait a month or so to see if things return to normal before I can take a hormone test according to the doctor.
I'm just trying to find out why I've had such fast results. I've had a few PMs asking and the answer is "I don't know why"

I'm trying really hard to teach myself about hormones and breast growth but am struggling. It all seems rather overwhelming

2 years maybe 3? And I'm still confused!!! Research changes which doesn't help matters much...

One minute this herb is good for this hormone and next minute turns out it's not and so forth...
Ie fenugreek is cancer protective next minute it's promoting.....
Pc cream is the best thing since sliced bread and supplies safe progesterone OH WAIT no it builds up in the body and takes months to leave and excess progesterone also puts you at risk for the big C...
Best thing... Use adaptogens.. Raise support or balance all hormones not bugger round with raising one then risk unbalancing the rest. Wish I'd taken that approach not mess myself up with said "safe phytoestrogens". ....

(28-04-2016, 01:17 AM)ellacraig Wrote: [ -> ]

(28-04-2016, 12:18 AM)Katana Wrote: [ -> ]All of this in relation to my situation is hypothetical until I get my hormone test done.
I haven't tried to deliberately increase or decrease anything. And all this hormone stuff honestly confuses me (hence why I'm staying away from herbs)
I did get my implant removed today, even though it was expired it could have still been releasing progestogen.
I have to wait a month or so to see if things return to normal before I can take a hormone test according to the doctor.
I'm just trying to find out why I've had such fast results. I've had a few PMs asking and the answer is "I don't know why"

I'm trying really hard to teach myself about hormones and breast growth but am struggling. It all seems rather overwhelming

2 years maybe 3? And I'm still confused!!! Research changes which doesn't help matters much...

Glad to know I'm not the only one. Sometimes I feel like a dumb blonde lol
Why are our bodies so confusing?

(28-04-2016, 12:18 AM)Katana Wrote: [ -> ]All of this in relation to my situation is hypothetical until I get my hormone test done.
I haven't tried to deliberately increase or decrease anything. And all this hormone stuff honestly confuses me (hence why I'm staying away from herbs)
I did get my implant removed today, even though it was expired it could have still been releasing progestogen.
I have to wait a month or so to see if things return to normal before I can take a hormone test according to the doctor.
I'm just trying to find out why I've had such fast results. I've had a few PMs asking and the answer is "I don't know why"

I'm trying really hard to teach myself about hormones and breast growth but am struggling. It all seems rather overwhelming

No question, it's overwhelming. You can always shoot a flare, or throw Hail Mary lol. High prolactin also inhibits DHT, meaning it's a bigger molecule that inhibits DHT from synthesizing inside the cell, fwiw.

(28-04-2016, 02:58 AM)Lotus Wrote: [ -> ]

(28-04-2016, 12:18 AM)Katana Wrote: [ -> ]All of this in relation to my situation is hypothetical until I get my hormone test done.
I haven't tried to deliberately increase or decrease anything. And all this hormone stuff honestly confuses me (hence why I'm staying away from herbs)
I did get my implant removed today, even though it was expired it could have still been releasing progestogen.
I have to wait a month or so to see if things return to normal before I can take a hormone test according to the doctor.
I'm just trying to find out why I've had such fast results. I've had a few PMs asking and the answer is "I don't know why"

I'm trying really hard to teach myself about hormones and breast growth but am struggling. It all seems rather overwhelming

No question, it's overwhelming. You can always shoot a flare, or throw Hail Mary lol. High prolactin also inhibits DHT, meaning it's a bigger molecule that inhibits DHT from synthesizing inside the cell, fwiw.

From what I've posted around the site would you say I'm showing signs of high prolactin? If so is there anything I can do to lower it?
Or is it high estrogen? Or both?
*head explodes*

It could be, but......labs will pick this up ultimately ending the speculation. From what I've seen from research higher prolactin influences IGT.